December 6th Historic Preservation Commission. If you would like to speak on any issue,

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1 City of Jacksonville December, CITY OF JACKSONVILLE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION Proceedings held on Wednesday, December, 0, commencing at :0 p.m., Ed Ball Building, North Hogan Street, Conference Room 00, st Floor, Jacksonville, Florida, before Diane M. Tropia, a Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large. PRESENT: JACK C. DEMETREE, III, Acting Chairman. RYAN P. DAVIS, Secretary. ANDRES LOPERA, Commission Member. MAIJU STANSEL, Commission Member. ALSO PRESENT: CHRISTIAN POPOLI, Planning and Development Dept. SONDRA FETNER, Office of General Counsel. GLORIA BLAKE, Planning and Development Dept P R O C E E D I N G S December, 0 :0 p.m THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We are starting the December th meeting. We'll start with some introductions. Christian. MR. POPOLI: Christian Popoli, Planning and Development. MS. FETNER: Sondra Fetner, Office of General Counsel. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Andres Lopera, Commissioner. THE CHAIRMAN: J.C. Demetree, Chairman. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Ryan Davis, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: Maiju Stansel, Commissioner. THE CHAIRMAN: We're going to go ahead and start, so cell phones, if you'll put those on silent. And any private conversations, if you'd have them in the hallway, I'd appreciate it. We'll have a break every two hours. Hopefully, we won't need one today. If you would like to speak on any issue, of 0 sheets Page to of //0 0:0: PM we ask that you fill out a speaker card and turn it in to Ms. Blake over here to your left. And, at this time, I will entertain a motion to approve November th's minutes. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Motion to approve the November th minutes. second. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: I've got a motion and a All those in favor? COMMISSION MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed? THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, you've passed this motion. We'll move right into the deferral list. We've got COA--, 00 College Street, Lot A; COA--, 00 College Street, Lot B; COA--, Canterbury Street; COA--, North Liberty Street; COA--0, North Laura Street; COA--, 0 Forbes Street; COA--0, th Street West. Any comments on the deferred items from commissioners? MR. POPOLI: Through the Chair -- THE CHAIRMAN: Uh-huh. MR. POPOLI: -- Number, COA--0, we're requesting that to be withdrawn. The -- this was the Dream Finders house that was located on the property. They have since found a different lot and the house has been removed from the site, so the COA is no longer needed. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I will take a motion to withdraw COA--0. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Motion to withdraw. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: All those in favor? COMMISSION MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed? THE CHAIRMAN: That motion carries. COA--0 will be withdrawn from the deferral list. agenda. MR. POPOLI: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: I'll move on to the consent Do any commissioners have any ex-parte or comments on the consent agenda?

2 City of Jacksonville December, THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, I will read off the consent agenda. We have COA--, th Street East; COA--, 0 Belvedere Avenue; COA--, Walnut Street; COA--, Powell Place; and COA--, Riverside Avenue. I'm now opening the public hearing. Does any of the audience have any comments on the consent agenda? AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.) THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, I will close the public hearing and entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Motion to approve the consent agenda. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: I've got a motion and a second. All those in favor? COMMISSION MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed? THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, you have approved the consent agenda. We'll move right along to previous items heard -- deferred items to be heard, COA--00, Valencia Road. Do any commissioners have any ex-parte or -- you would like to disclose? COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Yes. It's mine. THE CHAIRMAN: Fantastic. Okay. So you'll excuse yourself and I'm going to pass this over to you. MS. FETNER: Commissioner Lopera, when you're done with this presentation and the vote, if you wouldn't mind filling out that form right there. That is the -- basically, it memorializes your refraining from the vote, you're recusing yourself from your vote -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Okay. MS. FETNER: -- because it is your application and it is your property, so you cannot -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Yes, I understand that. Thank you. MS. FETNER: But you can participate and are allowed to present and you can be involved in the discussions. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Thank you. MS. FETNER: You're welcome. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Do we have a staff report? MR. POPOLI: We do indeed. This is the application COA--00 at Valencia Road. It is a request for the demolition of a contributing structure. It's a contributing structure in the Riverside Avondale Historic District. Staff is recommending approval. The structure in question, according to the Florida Master Site File for the property, it is listed as a contributing structure, but even in their report they questioned whether or not it had originally been an accessory structure to another primary structure. The house itself, although it was listed in the Sanborn maps as a dwelling, is set almost to the complete rear of the property. There is no -- you can't currently see it from the street because of the vegetation growth. So it may very well have been an accessory structure, but we just can't prove that fact. Had it been, it would have been something staff could have pursued a demolition approval //0 0:0: PM Page to of of 0 sheets administratively. The house itself is under a thousand square feet, which includes an enclosed porch as well as a nonconforming or nonhistorical addition. There have been a number of major alterations to the structure, at least based on the age at construction that we can tell. The majority of the windows are not original. As you can see in the picture on the screen, a number of the openings have been enlarged or enclosed with noncontributing, nonhistoric windows added. The (inaudible) pier is not original. The columns are not original. This was most likely a half porch that had been enclosed. The addition on the rear is basically siding, T-, with, obviously, a roof form that doesn't match. Generally, staff feels that the structure itself does not have much of its original historic character on the exterior. Even on the interior, the -- none of the original fixtures or, you know, wall treatments or anything like that are left. So there really isn't much historic character to preserve. And

3 City of Jacksonville December, plus, again, we don't know that it really musters to the level of a full single-family residence contributing structure at any rate, so we're comfortable with approval of the demolition. THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody have any questions for staff? THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I will open the public hearing. Will the applicant please step up? (Mr. Lopera approaches the podium.) MS. BLAKE: Sir, if you would state your name and address for the record. MR. LOPERA: Andres Lopera, Dellwood Avenue, Jacksonville, Florida 0. MS. BLAKE: If you would raise your right hand, please. MR. LOPERA: (Complies.) MS. BLAKE: Do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? MR. LOPERA: Yes. MS. BLAKE: Thank you. MR. LOPERA: I want to thank staff for 0 working with us on this one, Christian and Lisa, and I agree with the staff report. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Does anybody have any questions for Mr. Lopera? MS. FETNER: Through the Chair, have you considered relocating this property? Is it a feasible -- MR. LOPERA: Relocation is not feasible. The property -- the foundation is off grade, but it sits six inches off the ground and it's in poor condition. It will not -- it's not in failing condition, but even getting equipment below the structure that's six inches above the ground would be difficult. MS. FETNER: Okay. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Lopera? THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you. You can sit down. MR. LOPERA: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: We'll close the public hearing. Does anybody have a motion? COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Motion to approve COA--00. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: I second it. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So from what I can tell, and in reading through the staff report, I don't see any issues here. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Agreed. I went and took a look at it. I mean, it's -- it's really an outlier on the street. It's so far back from the -- from Valencia that even if it wasn't -- hadn't been modified to the degree that it was, it's pretty borderline. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: And it seems as though, because it's so far back on the lot and the neighboring properties also have something that far back on the lot that there possibly was something in the front that would have been more contributing at some other time that is now no longer there, so I concur with the staff report. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Do I have a motion -- sorry. MS. FETNER: Could you -- you just have to open it up to the public for public comment. THE CHAIRMAN: Did I not already do that? MS. FETNER: I don't think so. of 0 sheets Page to of //0 0:0: PM THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I opened it, right? MS. FETNER: But if there's anyone else that needed to speak -- THE CHAIRMAN: I'll reopen the public comment. Would anybody else like to comment on this COA? MS. BLAKE: Mr. Chairman, there are no speaker cards for this item. THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, I will close the public comment. And we have a motion -- we're doing the four, correct? MS. FETNER: That's correct. THE CHAIRMAN: I will take a vote. All those in favor? COMMISSION MEMBERS: Aye. (Commissioner Lopera abstains from voting.) THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed? COMMISSIONER LOPERA: I recuse myself from the vote. THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Hearing none, we've approved COA--00. Moving forward, we have no condemned

4 City of Jacksonville December, properties, no historic designations. We will move straight to the COAs. We'll open up with COA--, Walnut Street. And do we have a staff report? MR. POPOLI: Through the Chair, yes, we do. This is COA-- located at Walnut Street. It is a request to construct a two-story detached garage. The property is a contributing property to the Springfield historic district. We have a couple of conditions. I'll just go through the proposal real quick, if you'll give me just a moment. So this is the primary house (indicating). Again, it's very -- it's a contributing structure to the district. It's a very nicely restored house. It's a large lot. The request is to place the structure in the rear. As you can see on the site plan here, it will be offset from the primary structure, accessed through the alley. The proposed design has a couple of unique features. The first is the -- because you'll be able to see this from the main street, even though it's accessed from the rear, the applicant has salvaged two historic garage doors and placed them on the front as an artificial treatment. They're nonfunctional, but it's an interesting visual aspect. There's a second story balcony that you can see here. There's a residential portion on the upper story. This would be from the rear (indicating). You can see the alley access garage door, again, not visible from the street. And then the two side elevations. Staff did have a few conditions, and some of these were based on an attempt to solve what we saw as an architectural conundrum. I believe the applicant has a different solution, and I don't know that it's anything we would be opposed to, but -- Our main concern dealt with the position of the columns and the upper balcony. We felt that going through the trouble of creating this facade -- the functioning garage doors, you know, they're not -- and then placing the columns in front of them kind of defeated the purpose. So the conditions that we had were to shorten the balcony on this side (indicating) and then relocate the columns to support the balcony so they wouldn't interfere with the visual of the doors. And then the columns themselves, adding caps and bases to the more traditional. And then adding a full-size window to the right elevation, which -- my apologies. It would be this elevation (indicating). So there would be a full-size window added to that elevation. And then the standard, that the fascia and soffit boards would be (inaudible) wood or a cementitious material. And then the garage doors on the alley would be carriage style in their appearance to -- replicating the more traditional doors. And then any minor changes that would result from the actual design could be administratively approved by the Planning Department, and then we would have final approval of the plans. So with those conditions, we're //0 0:0: PM Page to of of 0 sheets recommending approval. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you. Do any commissioners have any questions for staff? THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I'll open up the public comment. Is the applicant here? (Audience member approaches the podium.) MS. BLAKE: Sir, if you would kindly state your name and address for the record. AUDIENCE MEMBER: John Wells, 0 Elmar Road, Jacksonville. MS. BLAKE: Raise your right hand, please. MR. WELLS: (Complies.) MS. BLAKE: Do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? MR. WELLS: Of course. MS. BLAKE: Thank you. MR. WELLS: Is Blair out on maternity leave or something? MR. POPOLI: No. She's covering the phones upstairs. MR. WELLS: Okay. I had sent her some new

5 City of Jacksonville December, elevations and some new information, and I didn't -- I assumed she got them. Apparently not. I have the new -- MR. POPOLI: She did. We just -- we had already created the book, so we couldn't distribute them. MR. WELLS: Okay. MR. POPOLI: If you have copies, you can give them to Ms. Blake. MR. WELLS: Okay. Well, I have a -- one of the conditions was the full-size window on the right elevation. I have that. MR. POPOLI: Okay. MR. WELLS: And -- but the question seemed to be the front elevation. MS. BLAKE: Sir, I'll be happy to pass those out for you. MR. WELLS: Okay. (Tenders documents to Ms. Blake.) MS. BLAKE: Do you have enough copies for everyone or -- MR. WELLS: Well, I have three. MS. BLAKE: Well, give me two and you can speak to the one and they can share. MR. WELLS: Okay. MS. BLAKE: (Distributes documents to the Commission members.) MR. WELLS: There had also been a request from the owner at the last minute to add a roof over the balcony up top too, so this new elevation shows that on the front. And I moved the columns over so that they would frame the finished doors, but the owner would like the porch to remain all the way across. THE CHAIRMAN: My first question is, is there a reason everything is not centered on the building, on the front elevation? MR. WELLS: Well, yes, because on the left side there's -- the staircase is there. So the upstairs -- the upstairs doors actually center the rooms. There's a little flexibility for moving them a little bit. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. MR. WELLS: The downstairs doors are centered for the two doors, and they will -- the vintage doors will be hung on the outside just as a decoration. It will have roll-up doors on the inside. That's -- that centers the garage area, drive area (indicating). COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So it will have roll-up doors on the -- only the foot, not the -- MR. WELLS: The foot is on the back, on the alley. The front has a pair of doors. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: But they're not functional, right? MR. WELLS: Yes, they are. THE CHAIRMAN: They are functional? MR. WELLS: Yes. Yeah, the vintage doors will be on the rollers, but you really can't see them. They're just decoration. So we're putting roll-ups -- regular roll-ups on the inside. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Got it. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We can kind of go through this real quick with you. The first condition to shorten the balcony and the rear door, to have the columns shift -- to go through the first condition by staff, I'm okay, in my opinion, with the long -- with the long balcony as long as the columns have shifted. Anybody else have thoughts on that? of 0 sheets Page to 0 of //0 0:0: PM COMMISSIONER DAVIS: I tend to agree. I think the revised elevation makes a lot more sense than the original with the columns being moved. MR. WELLS: Okay. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And even just the bases and the caps, I think, dresses it up nicely. MR. WELLS: That was part of the request. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So for Number, the Hardie fascia for the soffits and -- MR. WELLS: We normally do an open rafter tail design. We have a historic design with a -- we use bead board flipped upside down to appear as a plank -- planking over the open rafter tails. It makes a good effect. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Sounds great. And the carriage hardware on the alley side doors, garage door? MR. WELLS: That will be a historic design, yeah, one of the carriage-style doors. We're not opposed to any of it. We shifted -- we tried to shift the columns around. That was really the only thing that needed to be done. I think I -- I added the

6 City of Jacksonville December, window on the right side. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: I think the new design with the porch going all the way across, I think that's in keeping with many, many houses in this area as well, so -- MR. WELLS: I think they had a little heartburn over the fact that the columns wouldn't be symmetrical, but I don't think that's, you know, essential. It's -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Right. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And as an accessory structure set as far back from the road, it is, I think -- it's less visible. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Does anybody else have any questions for the applicant? THE CHAIRMAN: All right. MR. WELLS: The owner is here if you have a question for her. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Would anybody else in the audience care to comment on this issue? AUDIENCE MEMBERS: (No response.) THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, we'll close the public hearing. I'll entertain a motion. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Motion to approve -- so when I -- when I want to make the modification on the condition -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Yes, to amend. MS. FETNER: No, it's not an amend. It's a motion to approve with the following conditions, and then just go through the conditions that are provided by the staff. And you can change them, but that will just be the main motion because normally you say a motion to approve with staff conditions, but since you know from the start that you're going to change the staff conditions, you just state the conditions. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Good enough. Motion to approve COA-- with the following conditions: Numbers,, and as dictated by the staff, exempting Number, and relocating the front columns. Can I just cite the handout he gives? MS. FETNER: Yes. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Exempting Number, with the columns being relocated and the roof being extended per the handout we were submitted. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. This seems relatively cut and dry to me. Does anybody else have any opinions? COMMISSIONER DAVIS: We need a second, though. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: Second. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So now we can talk. MS. FETNER: Yes. MR. POPOLI: Through the Chair, I just want to ask a quick question. THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. MR. POPOLI: The summary sheet appears to have been formatted improperly and Conditions and weren't on there. All they are are the minor architectural changes that the staff can approve administratively, and then approval of the final plans would be by staff. They're the standard ones that we put on all of our COAs. I just want to make sure they're included. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Should I -- MS. FETNER: That's a friendly amendment. That's fine. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. //0 0:0: PM Page to of of 0 sheets Does anybody have any questions or any discussion? COMMISSIONER STANSEL: Well, I'd like to point out that the handout we received from the applicant seems to address all of the issues that are in here. I think the base and capital on the columns looks nice and relocating works well for those columns. And I think he found a good solution to keep the length of the balcony and put a roof over it while keeping to satisfy the client and Historic. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: I agree. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Agreed. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, I will take a vote. All those in favor? COMMISSION MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed? THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, your motion has passed -- MR. WELLS: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: -- to approve COA--, Walnut Street. We will move on to COAs for work initiated

7 City of Jacksonville December, without a COA. And it's COA--, Herschel Street. And do we have a staff report? MR. POPOLI: Yes, we do. This is an application for Certificate of Appropriateness, COA--, located at Herschel Street. It is a violation. The application is related to a partial porch enclosure on the front of the house. It is a contributing structure to the Riverside Avondale Historic District. The applicant has installed a knee wall that's shingled to match the current siding on the structure and then has screened in the rest of the porch above the knee wall. I'll go through some of the pictures here, but here is the Sanborn map (indicating) that shows the original structure, and you can see the small partial front porch that's original to the structure. Give me just a moment here. So this is the site file photograph of the structure (indicating). You can see the shake-style shingles and the partial porch. This is the Google Street View from January of this year. So this is the existing condition. Obviously, the columns have been changed and there's been some other modifications, historically. And this is the current condition of the porch (indicating). So the work that's been done is this partial knee wall that's been installed and then the screening and the screen on the front there. So, generally, the design guidelines and the Interior standards encourage preserving the openness of porches. We generally do see requests for screening. We generally do approve them in some fashion. It's the enclosure with the knee wall that really removes the porch aspect of the porch, so it's really the main point of contention. So as it's a violation, we don't have any conditions. We're just recommending denial. Reversal of the work would be the recommended solution, but I'm happy to answer any questions. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Does anybody have any questions for staff? COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Yes. You're saying that the only issue that you guys would typically have had was the knee wall? MR. POPOLI: Yeah. If someone wanted to screen in the porch, there are -- we get those requests, and typically floor to ceilings, creating -- retains the open appearance of the porch. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Right. MR. POPOLI: A lot of times the railings and the columns will be preserved as part of that, so it's easily reversible if someone wants to open the porch back up, but you're not structurally enclosing the porch. Historically, porches have been enclosed in the district. The majority of them were done prior to the district or some in violation. So you will see them, but a great many of them were done, you know, in the life span of the building but before the district or the guidelines were applied. THE CHAIRMAN: Anybody else have questions for staff? THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I'll open the of 0 sheets Page to of //0 0:0: PM public hearing. Is the applicant here? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes, I am. THE CHAIRMAN: Please come on up. (Audience member approaches the podium.) MS. BLAKE: If you would state your name and address for the record. AUDIENCE MEMBER: My name is Robert Billy. My address is Herschel Street, Jacksonville, Florida 0. MS. BLAKE: Would you raise your right hand, please. MR. BILLY: (Complies.) MS. BLAKE: Do you affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? MR. BILLY: Yes, ma'am. MS. BLAKE: Thank you. MR. BILLY: Okay. I have some printouts that Blair made, and I also have some -- I guess Gloria is passing them out. These are the two pictures of homes in the area that have knee walls, have enclosed porches. MS. BLAKE: Are these three sets?

8 City of Jacksonville December, MR. BILLY: Yeah. They're three sets, I'm sorry. So I'm going to go over just -- I mean, may I -- may I speak or -- I'm not sure how this works, so -- COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah. If you just want to talk us through it. MR. BILLY: Okay. So after Hurricane Irma happened, there were many shingles that came off the house, and so I decided since there was no underlayment there, go ahead and replace all the shingles and replace the underlayment there. And I've had many items (inaudible) off my porch in the past years I've been there. I've had two bikes, a number of tools, and all the other things that I could place there. And I had no idea that I would be creating a violation, honestly. I'm doing this because I have a -- I got a loan and I was like, okay, let's fix up the house and make it very comfortable and give me some privacy. And I didn't -- did not know that I would be changing the structure. I only thought that if I was changing some of the electrical or impacting 0 the structural integrity of the house that I would need to get that COA. So here I am to plead to keep the knee wall. I passed out those extra pictures of how homes look with the knee wall. Obviously, you can see pictures of what the house looked like in 00 with the picture of the two gentlemen out in front. I don't have a copy of this picture, I'm sorry, but -- COMMISSIONER DAVIS: The house in -- the house that's blue? MR. BILLY: So, yes, that's -- that's a picture of my dad and I as we were taking out a tree. And you see, like, this -- it's very open. People come up to the house all the time and they're -- there's no qualms about taking stuff off my front porch because there's no distance. I sent these other pictures to Blair because they are other structures which actually have continuation of the material used to put on siding on the home, and the knee wall structure is also covered up with screen above it too. This picture was not -- but I pointed it out to Blair just because I found there's another structure that was partially enclosed with screening. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: I assume you had a COA for the shingle replacement, right? MR. BILLY: I do have a COA for that. I have a permit, so -- because it's not -- it's not fully finished. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. MR. BILLY: Everything stopped since I had to go through this. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So it was just -- so it was just kind of a change on the fly, like -- MR. BILLY: Well, I -- so I didn't know I needed to get a COA to even start this whole plan. I've been planning on just kind of like doing this. And I got a loan and decided to do it on my own and had no -- I had -- I was ignorant of the requirements. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you hired a contractor to do the shingle replacement and then -- MR. BILLY: No. No, I've been doing this myself. //0 0:0: PM Page to of of 0 sheets COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. Got it. THE CHAIRMAN: So how were you informed that you needed the COA for the shingle replacement? MR. BILLY: I had two gentlemen come up and take pictures of my house, and I was like, uh-oh, something's wrong. So I went out and talked to them and then they referred me to permitting, and then I talked Blair, and here we are. THE CHAIRMAN: And that was preporch? MR. BILLY: That was after the porch was enclosed. THE CHAIRMAN: So the porch was enclosed first? MR. BILLY: Yes. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So -- sorry, just so I understand. THE CHAIRMAN: That's okay. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you started the shingle replacement -- MR. BILLY: Yes. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: -- without a permit? Without a COA? MR. BILLY: That's correct.

9 City of Jacksonville December, COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Got it. Okay. MR. BILLY: And, actually, that's -- that's where I -- why they -- I think that's what drew the attention was, of course, the front porch -- the front -- the front of the house was barren with just underlayment on it and it caught the attention of an inspector. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Right. So the -- is there any component of this that is the work initiated for the shingle replacement without a COA or -- MR. POPOLI: Yes, but it's something that staff could approve now, so it has been resolved. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. MS. FETNER: Through the Chair, can you just maybe direct the Commission as to what is being requested? I kind of feel like from the questions that no one -- that there might be some confusion about what the applicant is here for. MR. POPOLI: Okay. The violation that we wouldn't be able to approve would be the alteration to the historic porch with the enclosure. It goes against the guidelines and it's not something that typically staff would support, so it would come to you normally. Since it's a violation, it's coming to you as well. He could request full siding replacement and staff could approve that, so we didn't know it was a violation. The remedy would be to get a COA. If we, for whatever reason, felt that it wasn't something that we would approve, that would come to you as well, but we didn't have an issue with the siding replacement in this case, so the only point of contention is the porch enclosure at this point. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Got it. Okay. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Does anybody have any other questions for the applicant? THE CHAIRMAN: All right. You can sit down while we -- MR. BILLY: Thank you, sir. THE CHAIRMAN: Seeing nobody else in the audience, I will close the public hearing. Do I have a motion? COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Motion to deny per staff's recommendation. THE CHAIRMAN: Do I have a second? COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Second. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Well -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Well, now we can talk about it and -- THE CHAIRMAN: We can talk, yeah. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: It's a tough one. I mean, we -- you know, we don't -- it looks nice. It looks like you did a great job on it, but it's not really for us to say -- make the call on it architecturally whether it makes sense or not. There's a specific guideline that we have to follow that relates to porch enclosures. For me, I think we kind of have to defer to that. I mean, I think, you know, that -- and that's as far as we can go. I think the next step would probably be to -- as I understand the things about the security and all that, would be to go back to the starting line and apply for the -- just a regular screen enclosure. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: So you're -- COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So I'm -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: -- saying to remove of 0 sheets Page to of //0 0:0: PM the knee wall, then, and make the whole thing screen? COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Well, I think -- all we're being asked to approve is the knee wall -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Oh, that's right. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: -- so I would say deny the knee wall -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Right. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: -- but then the -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: But maybe give them some guidelines. THE CHAIRMAN: Probably at a later date, but it sounds like a full enclosure with the screen would not be all that difficult. It's really the knee wall that's under subject here. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: I've got one more question for staff, for Christian. MR. POPOLI: Yes. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Have you approved knee walls before for screen or has it just been all screen or nothing? MR. POPOLI: Typically, the screening would cover or go to an existing railing. We wouldn't approve any structural or

10 City of Jacksonville December, architectural changes to the front facade of the building. In this case, porches are considered a character-defining feature -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Right. MR. POPOLI: -- and that wouldn't be something we would be able to approve. It would come before you anyway. Just putting screening on the porch, because it is reversible and it doesn't alter any of the actual character, is something that we typically could approve, but in this case, because it's been altered, we wouldn't be able to anyway. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Right. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: So I tend to agree that it does, to me, alter the character of the porch. And I think you will reach the same -- call it a deterrent, even if the whole porch was screened in. I don't think that knee wall is necessarily going to stop anybody from coming up to a screened-in porch, whether it's screened in or not. So I think you'll get that same effect with the full screened-in porch. Anybody else have any comments? COMMISSIONER STANSEL: No. I agree with everything that's been said. We have to look at it for historical context, and historical context says that's an open porch. And a floor to screen -- floor-to-ceiling screen would be appropriate on the inside of the railing. If it was done originally, if it came to us originally, that's what we would probably approve. MR. BILLY: I have a question. If you look back in the -- MS. BLAKE: Sir, if you would -- THE CHAIRMAN: I need you to come to the -- MS. BLAKE: -- kindly step to the microphone before you speak. (Mr. Billy approaches the podium.) MR. BILLY: So if you guys go back to the pictures in the master file, this is not the original porch. The porch -- these are all ironwork. So this has been changed in the past too. THE CHAIRMAN: Which I understand that, but a lot of the changes that we deal with were obviously predistrict and precommission. And, unfortunately, we're now charged with upholding the design. MR. BILLY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: So in someone came in here, photographed everything, and prepared these conditions. So anything that was done before that, we basically -- you know, it was as is. But after, then that's basically our starting point. And that's what he's saying. So the -- even though that stuff was done in the past, we're starting in. MR. BILLY: It's really too bad -- COMMISSIONER STANSEL: If you would like to go back to the iron, feel free. MR. BILLY: Okay. So I -- if I return it to this, to the wood railing, is that appropriate or -- MR. POPOLI: Through the Chair -- THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. MR. POPOLI: -- that would be something that we would support, a simple, you know, square spindle, top and bottom board. And the square columns are most likely appropriate. //0 0:0: PM Page to 0 of 0 of 0 sheets They're not the original, but they would be common on that style. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: But I believe that the front is okay because it's -- it's got the screen doors. It's just the side where the knee wall -- we would have to take down the knee wall and do that full side, left side screen. That would have been approved, correct? MR. POPOLI: Potentially, but without seeing the design, it's hard to say -- (Simultaneous speaking.) MR. POPOLI: But, yeah, something to that effect. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: So you, you know, potentially could keep the screen on the left -- or on the front, but just on the left side take down the knee wall and do a floor-to-ceiling screen. That way you've got that security, a screen, but you've got something there. MR. BILLY: Okay. THE CHAIRMAN: It could still be a good deterrent.

11 City of Jacksonville December, COMMISSIONER STANSEL: The difference between what's there now with the knee wall and what was there before with just the columns is, if he leaves just the doors on the front and takes down the knee wall behind, now we have these pilasters that the columns are sitting on that's not conducive to that, what it was before. And that would be a question in my mind. MR. POPOLI: Yeah, I tend to agree. The railing and the banister, although they somewhat frame in the columns, they are floor-to-ceiling columns, whereas in the current setup the knee wall has basically created what replicates a pier, although there isn't one, so that does alter the characteristics of it. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Well, I think for now let's kind of -- you know, neither here nor there. I do think there's options, but as far as the current design, I think we're all in agreeance, so -- MR. BILLY: Okay. I have another question since I'm probably going to go ahead and just get this changed. Since the pier is the same, it's just covered up, may I cover the pier with the cedar shake? THE CHAIRMAN: I think that's something that, you know, Christian can help you with later on because, obviously, it's going to have to be redesigned at this point. So they should be able to answer any sort of those questions, you know, down the road, whenever you talk to them. And if there's any issue there, obviously, you will come back to see us, but I feel like you should be able to figure something out. Point being, I do think there's options, but I don't think this is going to be one of them, so thank you. MR. BILLY: Okay. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. And I don't think I need a motion, so we will take a vote. All those in favor of denial? COMMISSION MEMBERS: Aye. THE CHAIRMAN: Those opposed? THE CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, you have denied COA--. MR. POPOLI: Through the Chair -- THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. POPOLI: -- I'm not clear -- MS. FETNER: Christian and I are just discussing -- if the applicant is going to come back with a change -- it sounds like possibly changing the design -- I know you guys really wanted to have a shorter meeting, but since he's here, we can discuss -- THE CHAIRMAN: That's fine. MS. FETNER: -- some of the options. And that will give Christian some direction, so when the applicant comes for the appropriate COA -- because you still need the correct COA for the file to say, this is what was done, this is what was approved. So if you do have those ideas, I would say discuss them now in the Commission -- THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. MS. FETNER: -- and flush them out if you do have them. Just like you were talking with the -- putting the cedar shake on the railing. I would recommend that you guys talk about it. THE CHAIRMAN: Sure. Come on back up. of 0 sheets Page to of //0 0:0: PM (Mr. Billy approaches the podium.) MR. BILLY: Thank you. MS. FETNER: You don't have to have an order, but at least we could decide now. THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, that's fine. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: What do you think? What the applicant is suggesting is taking the columns and continuing up -- correct me if I'm wrong, sir. MR. BILLY: Okay. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: Continuing them up and wrapping them entirely with shingles or shakes, whatever you want to call them. My only trepidation with that is now you're going to make the front opening look smaller than it is because that one column on the side is truly engaged with the house. It would have to have some sort of break or void, for me, between the body of the house and the column, which might be a little more labor intensive than just putting straight columns with capitals, you know, on -- back to the building the way it was before. That's my only comment. MR. POPOLI: Through the Chair, this might

12 City of Jacksonville December, help the conversation. In the site file it was noted that the shingles were not original and the house would have had clapboard siding. So the shingles are a conjectural feature anyway, so I don't know that expanding them would necessarily be in keeping with the guidelines. In this case, the -- they really resided the building, obviously, with the existing shingles. I don't believe the original siding was there, so there was nothing to preserve at that point and this is what was on the building, so -- but covering the columns and shake wouldn't have been historically accurate because it wouldn't have had shake on it. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Yeah. I was actually thinking to remove the cedar shakes from the columns and leave the columns exposed and then come in on the left side and do floor-to-ceiling screen and then you're, you know, done, in my -- you know, in my opinion. MR. BILLY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: What do you guys think? THE CHAIRMAN: That's exactly what I was thinking. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: So do you have enough guidance? MR. POPOLI: I think so. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Remove the shingles from the bottom half of all three columns in the front. MR. BILLY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: And remove the knee wall -- basically removing the entire knee wall on the front and the left, and do floor-to-ceiling screen on the left elevation porch. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: And I would reestablish your railing along that side because that was what was there and that will help you with your security, which does what your knee wall is trying to do. MR. BILLY: Okay. So I need to, you know, rerail and then tear that down. Okay. And, actually, these -- these two columns on the left side (indicating), these are not actually true columns. They are just creating a smaller space within those two windows, so -- COMMISSIONER STANSEL: Again, I'd have to look back. The original picture here (indicating), it has the double columns. It looks like double columns. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Right here (indicating) -- COMMISSIONER DAVIS: The way those are -- (Simultaneous speaking.) MR. BILLY: Those are the columns here -- I mean, these right here -- COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Do you have intermediate columns between the front corner and the -- MR. BILLY: No. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. MR. BILLY: This portion right here (indicating), this is the only two piers that are here. These are just -by-s that are placed on top of this top cap to meet the ceiling. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: It seems that there's columns on the left elevation. They were there before? MR. BILLY: No. Just these two right here (indicating). COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Just the two front //0 0:0: PM Page to of of 0 sheets ones, right? (Simultaneous speaking.) MR. BILLY: (Inaudible.) COMMISSIONER LOPERA: There's three columns total there -- MR. BILLY: (Inaudible.) COMMISSIONER LOPERA: -- (inaudible) in the entire porch? MR. BILLY: It's not your column. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: It's what? MR. BILLY: It's not your column. It's just on top of the top cap. It's just sitting on the -- the railing that was -- (Simultaneous speaking.) COMMISSIONER STANSEL: The railing. MR. BILLY: -- (inaudible) railing that was there before. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Oh, I got you. MR. BILLY: Kind of creating, like, two window spaces. THE CHAIRMAN: Right. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Okay. COMMISSIONER STANSEL: That bush is in the way. You can't see it. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Oh, okay. Go back

13 City of Jacksonville December, to that last picture. MR. POPOLI: (Complies.) THE CHAIRMAN: That one. That one. Scroll down. There you go. MR. POPOLI: Yeah. I actually have a good visual here. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: So could he put the screen -- could he rebuild the balustrade and then put the screen on the outside of the balustrade? MR. POPOLI: Yeah. I think that would be acceptable. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Okay. Because that would make more sense from a usability standpoint where you have, you know, your handrail and you've got balusters on -- to the inside, and that would be -- to the outside of that is your actual screen. MR. BILLY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Because you don't want your screen right in front of your handrail. MR. BILLY: Understood. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Does that make sense? 0 MR. BILLY: Yes. MR. POPOLI: The kind of key feature is that the screening is transparent so it's -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Right. MR. POPOLI: -- (inaudible) obscure the porch regardless of what side it's on. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: And it could be removed easily if later on down the road somebody wanted to restore the house back to -- that -- back to the grainy picture. MR. BILLY: All right. I appreciate it. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Yes, sir. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So moving on, I see nothing else. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Did we finish voting on that? MS. FETNER: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, we did. COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Okay. MS. FETNER: They voted to -- COMMISSIONER LOPERA: Oh, that's right. And then we spoke of the conditions. MS. FETNER: Yes. THE CHAIRMAN: Unless anyone else has anything -- COMMISSIONER STANSEL: No, sir. MR. POPOLI: Just one comment. I know -- Commissioner Davis and Commissioner Demetree, I'm getting your information to Sandy so you guys can coordinate the ipad stuff. THE CHAIRMAN: Perfect. MR. POPOLI: So you will hear from her hopefully by the end of the week. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: If that's all we've got, this meeting is adjourned. (The above proceedings were adjourned at : p.m.) of 0 sheets Page to of //0 0:0: PM STATE OF FLORIDA) ) COUNTY OF DUVAL ) CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I, Diane M. Tropia, Florida Professional Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes. DATED this th day of December 0. Diane M. Tropia Florida Professional Reporter

14 City of Jacksonville December, 0 [] - :, : 00 [] - : [] - : th [] - : 0 [] - : [] - :, :, : [] - : [] - : [] - : 0 [] - : th [] - : th's [] - : [] - :, : [] - : [] - :0 th [] - : [] - : [] - :, :0, : st [] - : [] - : 00 [] - 0: 0 [] - :, :, : 0 [] - : [] - : [] - : 00 [] - :, : [] - : [] - : [] - : 0 [] - : 0 [] - :0 [] - :, : [] - :, :, : :0 [] - :, : : [] - : [] - 0:0, : -by-s [] - : th [] - : [] - :, : [] - :, :, : th [] - : [] - : A able [] - :, :, :, :, :, : abstains [] - : acceptable [] - : access [] - : accessed [] - :, : accessory [] - :, :, : according [] - : accurate [] - : Acting [] - : actual [] - :, :, : add [] - : added [] - :, :, 0: adding [] - :, : addition [] - :, : address [] - :, :, :, :, : adjourned [] - :, : administratively [] - :, :, : affirm [] - :0, :, : age [] - : agenda [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, : agree [] - 0:, 0:, :, :, :, :0 agreeance [] - : agreed [] - :, : ahead [] - :, :, : alley [] - :, :, :, :, 0: allowed [] - : almost [] - : ALSO [] - : alter [] - :0, :, : alteration [] - : alterations [] - : altered [] - : amend [] - :, : amendment [] - : Andres [] - :, : ANDRES [] - : answer [] - :, : anyway [] - :, :, : apologies [] - :0 appear [] - 0: appearance [] - :, : applicant [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, : application [] - :, :, :, : applied [] - : apply [] - : appreciate [] - :, 0: approaches [] - :, :, :, :, : appropriate [] - :, :, :, : Appropriateness [] - : approval [] - :0, :, :, :, :, : approve [] - :, :, :, :, 0:, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : approved [] - :, :, :, :0, 0:, : architectural [] - :, :, : architecturally [] - : area [] - :, :, :, : artificial [] - : aspect [] - :, : assume [] - : assumed [] - : attempt [] - : attention [] - :, : Audience [] - :, : audience [] - :, :, : AUDIENCE [] - :0, :, :, :, : authorized [] - : Avenue [] - :, :, : Avondale [] - :, : aye [] - :, :, :0, :, :, : //0 0:0: PM Page to of of 0 sheets B bad [] - : balcony [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : Ball [] - : balusters [] - : balustrade [] - :, :0 banister [] - : barren [] - : base [] - : based [] - :, : bases [] - :, 0: bead [] - 0: behind [] - : below [] - 0: Belvedere [] - : between [] - :, :, : bikes [] - : Billy [] - :, :, : BILLY [] - :, :, :, :, :, 0:, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :0, :, :, :, 0:, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:, 0: bit [] - : Blair [] - :, :0, 0:, :, : BLAKE [] - :, :, :, :0, :, :, :0, :, :, :0, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : Blake [] - :, :, : blue [] - 0: board [] - 0:, : boards [] - : body [] - : book [] - : borderline [] - : bottom [] - :, : break [] - :, : building [] - :, :0, :, :, :, : Building [] - : bush [] - : C cannot [] - : Canterbury [] - :0 cap [] - :, : capital [] - : capitals [] - : caps [] - :, 0: card [] - : cards [] - : care [] - : carriage [] - :, 0:, 0: carriage-style [] - 0: carries [] - : case [] - :, :, :, : caught [] - : cedar [] - :, :, : ceiling [] - :, 0:0, :, :0, :, : ceilings [] - : cell [] - :0 cementitious [] - : center [] - : centered [] - :, :

15 City of Jacksonville December, 0 centers [] - : Certificate [] - : CERTIFICATE [] - : certify [] - : Chair [] - :, 0:, :, :0, :, :0, :, : Chairman [] - :, :, : CHAIRMAN [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:, 0:, 0:, 0:, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:, 0:, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:, 0:0, :, :, :, : change [] - :0, :, :, : changed [] - :, :, : changes [] - :0, :, :, : changing [] - :, :, : character [] - :, :, :, :, : character-defining [] - : characteristics [] - : charged [] - : CHRISTIAN [] - : Christian [] - :, :, 0:, :, :, :, : cite [] - : CITY [] - : clapboard [] - : clear [] - : client [] - : close [] - :, 0:, :, :, : COA [] - :, :, :, 0:, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : COA--00 [] - :, :, :, : COA--0 [] - : COA-- [] - : COA-- [] - : COA-- [] - :, :, :, : COA-- [] - : COA-- [] - : COA-- [] - : COA-- [] - :, :, : COA-- [] - : COA-- [] - : COA-- [] - :0 COA-- [] - :0 COA--0 [] - :, :, :0, : COA-- [] - : COAs [] - :, :, : College [] - :, : column [] - :, :0, :, : columns [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, 0:, 0:, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : comfortable [] - :, : coming [] - :, : commencing [] - : comment [] - :, :, :0, :, :, :, : comments [] - :, :, :, : COMMISSION [0] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, 0:, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : Commission [] - :, :, :, :, :, : COMMISSIONER [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:, 0:, 0:0, 0:, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, 0:, 0:, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :0, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, 0:, 0:, 0:, 0:, 0:, 0:, :, : Commissioner [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, : commissioners [] - :, :, :, : common [] - 0: complete [] - :, :0 Complies [] - :, :, :, : component [] - : concern [] - :0 concur [] - : condemned [] - : condition [] - 0:, 0:, :, :, :, :, : Conditions [] - : conditions [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0: conducive [] - : Conference [] - : confusion [] - :0 conjectural [] - : consent [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, : considered [] - 0:, : construct [] - : construction [] - : contention [] - :, : context [] - : continuation [] - 0: continuing [] - :, : contractor [] - : contributing [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0 conundrum [] - : conversation [] - : conversations [] - : coordinate [] - : copies [] - :, :0 copy [] - 0: corner [] - : correct [] - :, :, :, 0:0, :, : Counsel [] - :, : COUNTY [] - : couple [] - :, : course [] - :, : cover [] - :, : covered [] - 0:, : covering [] - :, : created [] - :, : creating [] - :, :, :, :, : current [] - :, :, :, : cut [] - : of 0 sheets Page to of //0 0:0: PM D dad [] - 0: date [] - : DATED [] - : Davis [] - :, : DAVIS [] - :, :, :, :, :, 0:, :, :, :, :, 0:, 0:, 0:0, 0:, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, 0:0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :0, :, : deal [] - : dealt [] - :0 December [] - :, :, :, : decide [] - : decided [] - :0, : decoration [] - :, : defeated [] - : defer [] - : deferral [] - :, : deferred [] - :, : defining [] - : degree [] - : Dellwood [] - : DEMETREE [] - : Demetree [] - :, : demolition [] - :, :, : denial [] - :, :0 denied [] - :

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