COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS

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1 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS Volume: Pages: Exhibits: 0 SUFFOLK, SS. SUPERIOR COURT DEPARTMENT OF THE TRIAL COURT * * * * * * * * * * * * ERNST J. MEYER * * vs. * Docket No. SUCV00-0 * NANTUCKET BUILDING DEPARTMENT,* et al. * * * * * * * * * * * * * STATUS HEARING BEFORE THE HONORABLE MERITA A. HOPKINS APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff: Mr. Ernst Meyer Appearing Pro Se School Street Belmont, Massachusetts 0 For the Defendant: Kopelman &Paige, PC 0 Arch Street, th Floor Boston, Massachusetts 00-0 By: George X. Pucci, Esquire Courtroom Boston, Massachusetts February, 0 Lois M. Orozco Approved Court Transcriptionist Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

2 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. I N D E X (NO WITNESSES OR EXHIBITS WERE PRESENTED.) Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

3 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 (Case called at :: p.m.) THE CLERK: The next matter, your Honor, is Docket No. 00-0, Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al., before the court on a review status regarding an appeals court decision. Sir, if you want to step up, please. Plaintiff or plaintiff s counsel, whoever is representing the plaintiff, up front, defense counsel in back. Or do you want them up at sidebar, your Honor? THE COURT: No, this is fine. We can just -- THE CLERK: Okay. Sir, come on up front. Are you Mr. Meyer? MR. MEYER: Yes. THE CLERK: Okay, great, thank you. THE COURT: Okay, if everyone could put their names on the record, beginning with Mr. Meyer. MR. MEYER: I am a little hard of hearing. THE COURT: All right. I just need you to state your name for the record. MR. MEYER: Ernst J. Meyer. THE COURT: All right, thank you. Plaintiff in this matter, okay. Sir? MR. PUCCI: Good afternoon, your Honor. Attorney George Pucci, P-U-C-C-I, for the defendant, Nantucket Building Department, and we are from Kopelman & Paige. Frances DiLeo AAA Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

4 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 We filed a Notice of Appearance on Monday. I believe you may not have it yet. THE COURT: All right. I am just getting the records on this, including the appeals court decision. Mr. Meyer, if you don t mind me just asking counsel questions. You can add to it, but I am deferring to counsel just because he is familiar with proceedings. Can you hear me? MR. MEYER: Yes. THE COURT: Okay. I just want to make sure you can hear me. Have a seat, all right. Mr. Pucci, is that your name? MR. PUCCI: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Did you have a chance to review this file? MR. PUCCI: I did, your Honor. And I spoke to Mr. Meyer before we had this conference. There is an appeals court order that has not been appealed, so it is in effect, Mass. Appeals Court order. And, you know, I explained to Mr. Meyer I just took over the case. I reviewed the file yesterday. I did speak to the building inspector this morning to try to find a solution to what was ordered by the appeals court. I mean the order clearly contemplates that there is some type of inspection that is going to take place before any type of order to remove the plumbing or to order that it gets -- a permit comes through. And what I would recommend -- what I would suggest, your Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

5 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 Honor -- and whatever you want to do is fine -- but Mr. Meyer had a motion out to my prior -- my predecessor counsel, and he just filed it with an Affidavit of Compliance of Rule A on Monday. I haven t had -- I didn t see the motion. THE COURT: What motion is that? MR. PUCCI: It says, Appellant s Motion to Implement the Decree of the Appeals Court. THE COURT: Okay. I have it right here. MR. PUCCI: I didn t see that until Mr. Meyer actually gave it to me. THE COURT: Okay. MR. PUCCI: And I didn t have a chance to go through this with the building inspector who I spoke to this morning about trying to get a solution to this matter. One thing that I would suggest is maybe just, you know, staying this matter or continuing it over 0 days until I have a chance to speak again to the building inspector; then back to Mr. Meyer to see if we can work out some type of solution. THE COURT: Okay. Well, let me ask you this: Mr. Meyer, are you the owner of property that this plumber was working on? MR. MEYER: I am the lessee. THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEYER: The story is this: I bought this property in 0 or, when I was the Nantucket eye doctor. And I put it in a trust for members of my family of which my son is Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

6 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 the trustee. When I retired from practice, or almost partially retired from practice, I wished to build a -- to leave it to them with a house so that they could use it; it was vacant land. And because I anticipated that there would be legal issues, I asked my son to give me a lease on the property so that I am the lessee. The lease is a -year lease. THE COURT: Okay, that s fine. Okay. And so I am just sort of fast forwarding. It seems like -- because I am not familiar with the underlying matter -- but it seems as if you were going to build something on the property and the plumber who was working on the property was being held up by the Town over issues, is that it? MR. MEYER: No. Your Honor, this is a long controversy which has been going on for six years. THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEYER: And the most recent stage is that I was unable to find a plumber who would do this for me. And I needed to -- I needed to have a toilet, I needed to have a shower in order to work this, so I put the plumbing in myself. THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEYER: I have done this before. THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEYER: This was not legal. I challenged the law, unsuccessfully. Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

7 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEYER: The plumbing is -- the reaction of the plumbing inspector was to give me an order to cease and desist the plumbing with which I complied. This is of two-year standing now. The plumbing inspector also ordered that all the plumbing be torn out without his having inspected it; that I hire a plumber to tear it out. He wouldn t even let me tear it out. And this I appealed to the -- THE COURT: Now I understand. MR. MEYER: -- to the -- THE COURT: Okay. To the appeals court. Well, no, you appealed to the superior court. MR. MEYER: Well, first -- first to the State Board of Inspectors of Plumbing -- THE COURT: Yes. MR. MEYER: -- and Gas Fitting. Then to the Suffolk Superior Court -- and I lost in both forums -- then to the appeals court. The appeals court affirmed the judgment that I was not permitted to do the plumbing. In other words, that the basic regulations -- THE COURT: Right. MR. MEYER: -- were valid. But it reversed the condemnation of my property which was, according to the appeals court, was not in accordance with law. Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

8 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 THE COURT: Okay. And that is -- okay, now I understand the decision that is in front of me. MR. MEYER: Thereafter I immediately attempted to comply by hiring a plumber. This is in my memorandum and motion. I made telephone calls. I was boycotted by the plumbers on the island. I could find no one. This is all -- I could give you as much detail as you wish, your Honor. THE COURT: No. I think I have a good idea of where we are, okay? MR. MEYER: Okay. THE COURT: So I thank you because that helps me understand the one paragraph summary of the appeals court decision right here. MR. MEYER: Yes. THE COURT: And so you are absolutely right that the court upheld the superior court decision, affirming that you cease all plumbing work. But they reversed on the decision to require you to remove the uninspected plumbing. And so now they have remanded it to the superior court. And I would suspect that a plumber isn t going to do anything until you get a decision from this court. Well, right now you have to get some sort of decision from this court on that second part. MR. MEYER: Excuse me, your Honor. I don t believe that is Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

9 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 the case. I believe that the regulations are very clear and unambiguous that a licensed plumber is entitled to receive a permit. I am not entitled to receive -- THE COURT: Okay. But let me just -- okay, I understand. But you have certain plumbing that is there. You have certain plumbing right now that is in that structure. MR. MEYER: Yes. THE COURT: And the decision has to be made now as to if that plumbing is something a plumber can go in and work on and use or not. That is where we are right now. Take my word for it, okay? Now, to get this resolved, we either need another hearing in the superior court or the parties can work it out. I am going to suggest that we are at a very good point in time right now where although you have had disputes between each other, this appeals court has sufficiently guided Nantucket, as well as Mr. Meyer, on a resolution so that everyone can move forward. And I am going to give you that opportunity, and I am going to ask that you speak with each other and see if you can resolve this because you have got some direction by the appeals court, okay? I think you can reach a compromise on this, I think. Would it be -- I am looking, Mr. Pucci, now, is this something you could do today or do you need more time or -- MR. PUCCI: I need more time, your Honor, only because as I said I -- First of all, I am very optimistic about being able to Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

10 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al resolve this with Mr. Meyer. THE COURT: Yes. MR. PUCCI: And that is why I requested basically like a 0-day stay. The reason I am asking for 0 days is it is a little more complicated because it is a little confusing how to implement the appeals court decision because it definitely says that an inspection has to take place. Then it says, you know, it must be of integrity and fairness and a report, and, you know, under the code. So what I need to do first of all is address with the building inspector, who I spoke for the first time this morning, Mr. Meyer s claim about this issue of issuing a permit. There is a difference between issuing a permit and pulling a permit. You know, when they pull the documentation, you have seen it. In municipalities you will see, you know, they pull the permit and they put it up, building permit. It says building permit but it doesn t qualify as a permit until the work is done and it is inspected and satisfied. THE COURT: Right. MR. PUCCI: So what Mr. Meyer I think is talking about is pulling a permit from the, you know -- THE COURT: Yes. And he is not able to get anyone that will pull the permit. MR. PUCCI: Exactly. And so the job I need to do at this point is to explain to them -- because it would be for the first Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

11 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 time that they have had this explanation -- of what the appeals court rulings means, how they can protect themselves for -- You know, they are a little bit -- when I spoke this morning they are concerned, justifiably, about the precedential effect of it because of the fact of they don t want people going out doing their own plumbing and then, you know, and getting -- THE COURT: I am not -- okay. You can tell Nantucket. MR. PUCCI: Yes. THE COURT: I am not concerned about precedential effect. MR. PUCCI: Right. THE COURT: Okay. And what we mean is Nantucket is concerned that if they work this out with you, they might have to work it out with everyone else. Please tell Nantucket that is not the case. MR. PUCCI: I will do that. THE COURT: And I am going to expect, I really expect at this point in time that the two parties can sit down and they can outline a road map so that there is no more problem with this; that everyone can understand how this job can get done correctly with a plumber. And it sounds like there is some question as to if a plumber can come in and just start where we left off. If the plumbing is there and it is -- it sounds like you need some sort of inspection to make a determination if there has to be adjustments made by a plumber or if they can just take the work Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

12 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 that has been done and work on it. MR. PUCCI: Correct. But for the first time they are getting this explained to them today. THE COURT: Right. MR. PUCCI: The only reason I ask for more time, your Honor, is -- I understand all of that. THE COURT: You have got -- MR. PUCCI: But I need to look at their code. I need to -- THE COURT: You got it. MR. PUCCI: Okay. THE COURT: You have got more time. I am going to give everyone 0 days, okay, to talk to each and try and work out a road map. And if you work out a road map and everyone agrees and understands each other s positions, and it works for both people, then you are not going to need another hearing. You can come in and basically advise the court that you agree, and you can draft it into an agreement, and we will file it right here. Do you understand that, sir? MR. MEYER: Are you talking to me? THE COURT: Yes, I am. MR. MEYER: Yes, I understand. THE COURT: Okay. So I am going to give you 0 days. I think that you have got a piece of information that Nantucket hasn t had before now. And I am going to give you all 0 days; and come back in 0 days. Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

13 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 0 Hopefully, you will have an agreement by then and you will know how you can progress with this. And it will be an agreement between the parties that you can file in this court as an agreement, okay? And if you don t have that, then we are going to schedule this down for another hearing to get you a resolution through this court, all right? MR. MEYER: Okay. THE COURT: Okay, great. Thirty days from now. We are at March rd, we are going to come back -- we are in February rd, we are going to come back March rd. Is that enough time? Do we have that in the afternoon? THE CLERK: Yes. MR. PUCCI: Two p.m., your Honor? THE CLERK: March rd is fine. THE COURT: Yes, because we have to make enough -- yes, it is a status. It is a status hopefully reporting that this is settled. And Mr. Meyer -- is it Dr. Meyer? Dr. Meyer, you only have to come from Belmont, so it is a doable thing. You only have to come from Belmont. MR. MEYER: Yes, yes. THE COURT: Okay, so we can do this. All right, we will see you in 0 days. MR. MEYER: What is the date? Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

14 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. 0 THE CLERK: March rd. THE COURT: Third. MR. MEYER: March rd. THE CLERK: And you will receive notice. MR. MEYER: Thank you. THE CLERK: Okay. MR. PUCCI: Thank you. THE COURT: Make sure you have each other s contact information before you leave, okay? All right, thank you. MR. PUCCI: Thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. (Hearing ended at :0: p.m.) 0 Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

15 Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. CERTIFICATION I, Lois M. Orozco, an Approved Court Transcriptionist for AAA Court Transcription Specialists, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcript prepared to the best of my ability from one audio recording provided by the Office of Court Management, Transcription Services, in the matter of Ernst Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al., Suffolk Superior Court Docket No. SUCV00-0. I, Lois M. Orozco, further certify that the foregoing is in compliance with the Administrative Office of the Trial Court Directive on Transcript Format. I, Lois M. Orozco, further certify that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this hearing was taken, and further that I am not financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording equipment. Transcripts produced from computer. Lois M. Orozco, Transcriptionist for AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Road, Medford, MA 0 Date AAA Court Transcription Specialists BY: Frances DiLeo, Notary Public My commission expires: April, 0 Date Frances DiLeo AAA Court Transcription Specialists Playstead Rd., Medford, MA 0 ()-

16 The Commonwealth of Massachusetts OFFICE OF COURT MANAGEMENT, Transcription Services AUDIO ASSESSMENT FORM For court transcribers: Complete this assessment form for each volume of transcript produced, and include it at the back of every original and copy transcript with the certificate page, word index, and CD PDF transcript. TODAY'S DATE: December, 0 TRANSCRIBER NAME: Lois M. Orozco AAA Court Transcription Services CASE NAME : Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. DOCK ET NUMBER: SUCV00-0 RECORDING DATE : February, 0 TRANSCRIPT VOLUME: OF Client: Office of Court Management, Transcription Services TYPE: CD TAPE QUALITY: EXCELLENT GOOD FAIR POOR (check all that apply) ISSUES (include time stamp): Background noise time stamp: Low audio Low audio at sidebar Simultaneous speech Speaking away from microphone Other: COMMENTS: The audio recording was flawless.

17 0 [] : :: [] : 00-0 [] : -year [] : :0: [] : 0 [] : 0: :,,, : 0-day [] 0: rd [] :0,0,, :, [] : a [] : [] : appellant s [] : A able [] : 0: absolutely [] : accordance [] : according [] : actually [] : add [] : address [] 0:0 adjustments [] : advise [] : affidavit [] : affirmed [] : affirming [] : afternoon [] : : agree [] : agreement [] : :,, agrees [] : al [] : almost [] : although [] : another [] : : : anticipated [] : appealed [] : :, appeals [] : :,,,0 : :,,, : :,0 0: : appearance [] : attempted [] : attorney [] : B back [] : : : :0, basic [] : basically [] 0: : beginning [] : believe [] : : : Sheet Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. Suffolk Superior Court Docket No. SUCV00-0 Status Hearing - February, 0 belmont [] :0, between [] : 0: : bit [] : board [] : both [] : : bought [] : boycotted [] : build [] :, building [] :, : :, 0:,, C called [] : calls [] : case [] : : : : cease [] : : certain [] :, challenged [] : chance [] : :, claim [] 0: clear [] : clearly [] : clerk [] :,, :, :,, code [] 0: : come [] : : :, : 0,,0, comes [] : compliance [] : complicated [] 0: complied [] : comply [] : compromise [] : concerned [] :,, condemnation [] : conference [] : confusing [] 0: contact [] : contemplates [] : continuing [] : controversy [] : correct [] : correctly [] :0 counsel [] :, :, : court [] :,,0,,, :,,,,,,0 :,,,, :,,, :,0,,,,,,,,, :,,,,,,,0,, :,,,,0 0:,,, :,,,, :,,,,,0, :,,,, :,, court. [] : D date [] : days [] : 0: :,,, :, decision [0] : : :,,,,, : 0: decree [] : defendant [] : defense [] : deferring [] : definitely [] 0: department [] :, desist [] : detail [] : determination [] : didn t [] :,, difference [] 0: direction [] :0 disputes [] : doable [] :0 docket [] : doctor [] : documentation [] 0: doesn t [] 0: doing [] : don t [] : : : : done [] : 0: : : down [] : : draft [] : E each [] :, :, : effect [] : :, either [] : ended [] : enough [] :, entitled [] :, ernst [] :0 et [] : even [] : everyone [] : : :, :, exactly [] 0: excuse [] : expect [] :, explain [] 0: explained [] : : explanation [] : eye [] : F fact [] : fairness [] 0: familiar [] : :0 family [] : fast [] : february [] :0 file [] :, : : filed [] : : find [] : : : fine [] :0 : : : first [] :, : 0:0,, : fitting [] : forums [] : forward [] : forwarding [] : front [] :, : G gas [] : gave [] : george [] : gets [] : getting [] : : : give [] : : : : :,, got [] :0 :,,, great [] : : guided [] : H hard [] : hasn t [] : haven t [] : hear [] :, hearing [] : : : : : held [] : helps [] : hire [] : hiring [] : honor [] :,, :, : : :, : : : :0 hopefully [] :, house [] : I idea [] : immediately [] : implement [] : 0: including [] : information [] : : inspected [] : 0: inspection [] : 0: : inspector [] : :, :, 0: inspectors [] : integrity [] 0: island [] : isn t [] : issue [] 0: issues [] :, issuing [] 0:, J job [] 0: : judgment [] : justifiably [] : K kopelman [] : L land [] : law [] : : lease [] :,, leave [] : : left [] : legal [] :, lessee [] : : licensed [] : little [] : 0:, : long [] : 0 - long

18 look [] : looking [] : lost [] : M made [] : : : map [] : :, march [] :0,, :, mass [] : matter [] :, :, :0 mean [] : : means [] : members [] : memorandum [] : meyer [] :,,,,,0,0 :,,, :,,,,, :,,, :,,,, :,,, :, 0:,0 :, :,,,,, :, meyer s [] 0: might [] : mind [] : monday [] : : morning [] : : 0: : most [] : motion [] :,,, : move [] : much [] : municipalities [] 0: must [] 0: myself [] :0 N name [] : :0 names [] : nantucket [] :, : : :,, : need [0] : :,, 0:0, : :,, needed [] :,, next [] : notice [] : : O okay [] :,,, : :,,, :,,,, :, :,, 0, :,,, :, :0,, :,,, :, one [] : :, only [] : : :,0 opportunity [] : optimistic [] : order [] :,,,, : : ordered [] : : other [] :0 :, other s [] : : out [] :, :,, : :,, :, outline [] : over [] : : : own [] : Sheet Ernst J. Meyer vs. Nantucket Building Department, et al. Suffolk Superior Court Docket No. SUCV00-0 Status Hearing - February, 0 owner [] :0 P p-u-c-c-i [] : p.m [] : : : paige [] : paragraph [] : part [] : partially [] : parties [] : : : people [] : : permit [] : : 0:,,,,,,,, permitted [] :0 piece [] : place [] : 0: plaintiff [] :,, plaintiff s [] : please [] : : plumber [] :0 :, : :, :, :0,, plumbers [] : plumbing [] : :0 :,,,,,,0 :, :,, :, point [] : 0: : positions [] : practice [] :, precedential [] :, predecessor [] : prior [] : problem [] : proceedings [] : progress [] : property [] :0, :,, : protect [] : pucci [] :, :0,, :,, :, 0:,0, :,0, :,,,0 : :,0 pull [] 0:,, pulling [] 0:, put [] : : :0 0: Q qualify [] 0: question [] : questions [] : R reach [] : reaction [] : really [] : reason [] 0: : receive [] :, : recent [] : recommend [] : record [] :, records [] : regarding [] : regulations [] : : remanded [] :0 remove [] : : report [] 0: reporting [] : representing [] : requested [] 0: require [] : resolution [] : : resolve [] : 0: resolved [] : retired [] :, reversed [] : : review [] : : reviewed [] : road [] : :, rule [] : rulings [] : S satisfied [] 0: says [] : 0:,, schedule [] : seat [] :0 second [] : see [] :,, : 0: : seems [] :,0 seen [] 0: settled [] : shower [] : sidebar [] : sir [] :,, : sit [] : six [] : solution [] : :, son [] : : sort [] : : : sounds [] :, spoke [] : : 0: : stage [] : standing [] : start [] : state [] : : status [] : :, stay [] 0: staying [] : step [] : story [] : structure [] : sufficiently [] : suffolk [] : suggest [] : : : summary [] : superior [] :, :,0 : suspect [] : T tear [] :, telephone [] : that s [] : themselves [] : thereafter [] : third [] : thirty [] : today [] : : toilet [] : took [] : torn [] : town [] : trust [] : trustee [] : try [] : : trying [] : two [] : : two-year [] : type [] :, : U unable [] : unambiguous [] : under [] 0: underlying [] :0 understand [] :0 :, : : :,, understands [] : uninspected [] : unsuccessfully [] : until [] :, : 0: up [] :,,, : 0: upheld [] : V vacant [] : valid [] : vs [] : W whatever [] : whoever [] : will [] 0:, : : :,,, : wish [] : wished [] : without [] : word [] :0 words [] :0 work [] : :0 : :, 0: :,, :,, working [] :0 : works [] : wouldn t [] : Y years [] : yesterday [] : look - yesterday