Case 1:04-cv RCL Document 195 Filed 04/15/13 Page 1 of 13 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

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1 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ROGER HALL, et al.,.. Plaintiffs,.. v... CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY,.. Defendant CA No. 0-0 (RCL) Washington, D.C. Tuesday, March, 0 :0 a.m. TRANSCRIPT OF STATUS HEARING BEFORE THE HONORABLE ROYCE C. LAMBERTH UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE APPEARANCES: For Plaintiffs Roger Hall, Studies Solutions Results: For Plaintiff Accuracy in Media: For the Defendant: Court Reporter: JAMES H. LESAR, ESQ. 00 K Street, NW Suite 0 Washington, DC 000 (0) - JOHN H. CLARKE, ESQ. Law Office of John H. Clarke K Street, NW Suite 00 Washington, DC 000- (0) -00 MERCEDEH MOMENI, AUSA U.S. Attorney's Office Civil Division Fourth Street, NW Washington, DC 00 (0) 0-0 BRYAN A. WAYNE, RPR, CRR Official Court Reporter U.S. Courthouse, Room 0-A Constitution Avenue, NW Washington, DC 000 (0) - Proceedings reported by stenotype shorthand. Transcript produced by computer-aided transcription.

2 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of 0 0 P R O C E E D I N G S THE DEPUTY CLERK: Civil action 0-. Roger Hall, et al., versus the Central Intelligence Agency. Counsel, please introduce yourself to the Court. MR. LESAR: Good morning, Your Honor. James H. Lesar representing Roger Hall and Studies Solutions Results, Inc. MR. CLARKE: Good morning, Your Honor. John Clarke on behalf of Accuracy in Media, Inc. THE COURT: Okay. MS. MOMENI: Good morning, Your Honor. Mercedeh Momeni, U.S. Attorney's Office, on behalf of the CIA. THE COURT: Good morning. You want to tell us where we are? MS. MOMENI: Your Honor, there are two categories of documents left that the Court had ordered us to do a sampling of, and we're here with some good news this morning, actually, Your Honor. So the first category involves the search of the documents of the 00 names, and within that universe, there are two subcategories of places we had to search. First of all, the archives, those are the hard copies with boxes, so on and so forth. The agency had sent personnel out to the archives, and they have determined that there are responsive folders which contain,000 documents, and the search for those are not complete. They're in the process of processing them. They hope to be done with that within six

3 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of 0 0 months. We can do this in a shorter period of time if we're able to sit down with plaintiffs and figure out whether there are certain miscellaneous type items within these folders that they may not be interested in, in which case the processing will go much faster. For example, there's information in there about benefits that were paid out to the next-of-kin. There's information about the time spent on the job or sick leave that this person took. So, for example, personnel and HR-related stuff. So if we're able to sit down with plaintiffs -- and we offered that this morning. I'm not sure we've had a response yet, but again, we're willing to work cooperatively and reduce that six months even further. So that's the good news, Your Honor. With regard to the still 00 names, now looking at Cadre -- that's our automated system -- a search of the index has been completed. There were 0,000 responsive hits. Now, what does that mean? That means that there's 0,000 single pages, some of which are clustered into a hundred-page document, and some of which are single pages. The agency believes that Mr. Hall is already in possession of a lot of these documents. They were previously produced under other circumstances, or we've already produced them. Again, if plaintiffs are willing to work with us, we can cut

4 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of 0 0 down the number of responsive hits here as well. I should also let the Court know that the reason we've gotten such a large number of hits is because the search was run quite broadly. So, for example, if the plaintiff provided us with a name of, say, "Adam Samuel," for example, the search would pull up "Adam Samuelsen" as well. So that's why we have such a large number of hits. At any rate, we hope to finish with processing that information -- or those documents, rather. The CIA tells me it'll take at least a year. Again, we'll be able to cut that time a little shorter if we can work on limiting the types of records the plaintiffs are looking for. Your Honor, finally, our search in the director's area for the congressional committee documents -- that's the second set, rather -- we hope to complete that within four months. We're still going through those documents. We have found that there are documents, some of which are several hundred pages. But again, we'll be able to finish that within four months. We discussed this morning also, at plaintiffs' suggestion, looking into rolling releases. With the archives, we'll be able to do that. With the archive records, rather, we'll be able to do that. I'm not so sure about the Cadre records, again, because what the CIA personnel have to do is to look at just a single piece of paper, a single document, a single page, and without context, without looking at the entire document, it's

5 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of 0 0 hard to tell what's going on. So rolling releases will be more difficult, will be much more difficult for the Cadre documents. THE COURT: All right. Mr. Lesar? MR. LESAR: Good morning, Your Honor. Well, we're pleased to hear the good news. I think that we're still concerned about several things. We don't understand, and there's been no details put forward with respect to how it was determined what records were responsive and what not. I think the immediate problem is to get releases made on a rolling basis. At the hearing last December, the government suggested that the problem of duplicates and referrals would impede the process of rolling releases. We don't understand how that is a problem. Documents that may be duplicates can be set aside and considered at a later date, and those that are clearly within the scope of the request can be produced on a rolling basis. We also have a question about the DOD was to have provided some records by the end of December, and we have not received them. But we've talked with Ms. Momeni about that -- THE COURT: They were referred from CIA? MR. LESAR: Yes. THE COURT: To DOD? MR. LESAR: Yes. And I think we can probably work that problem out with her. So I think the main thing is to get some sort of schedule in writing so the parties can adhere to

6 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of it. 0 0 THE COURT: Mr. Clarke, did you want to add anything? MR. CLARKE: Just briefly, Your Honor. THE COURT: You've got separate clients, I take it. MR. CLARKE: Yes, Your Honor. Just briefly, Ms. Momeni said that she's not going to release records that have already been produced to Mr. Hall. I just want to make it clear that would be in this case. Mr. Hall has previous cases. THE COURT: I don't know what -- is that what you meant? I'll give you a minute to consult if you want to. MS. MOMENI: What the agency has advised me is that Mr. Hall is in possession of some of these documents. I don't know if we're not going to resend or re-release them. I think if they come up, they're going to be sent again. Court's indulgence for a moment for me to double-check. THE COURT: Okay. (Counsel conferring.) MS. MOMENI: That's correct. So I'm correct. THE COURT: Tell me more about whether I can resolve this rolling production on the Cadre records. MS. MOMENI: Your Honor, again, the agency's advised me that it's difficult for them to do rolling releases because of the nature of the database. The searchers will only be able to look at one page at a time. For example, looking at a single page that doesn't have anyone's name on it, they won't be able

7 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of 0 0 to understand the larger context of whether that's releasable. So it's in everyone's best interest for the plaintiffs to be a little patient; that way they will get a complete set of records. From what I understand, it's not just a question of duplicates; it's a question of making sure the records are complete as well. THE COURT: I don't understand that. If his name's not on it, why would it be hit? MS. MOMENI: So if you have a full document -- if you have a document that's 00 pages and one page doesn't have -- THE COURT: Oh, I see. His name is in the document. MS. MOMENI: But not on every single page, yes. THE COURT: But once you've completed that hundred pages, why couldn't you make whatever releases is going to be made out of that? Why do you have to wait a year? MS. MOMENI: Well, again, there may be duplicates, or there may be other documents that need to be -- if they're classified, coordination needs to go on. So, again, from what I've been told, rolling productions would just be incredibly difficult. I can check with the CIA to see if there's any further explanation, if I haven't missed anything, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. (Counsel conferring.) MS. MOMENI: So, Your Honor, the agency representative also informed me that sometimes there are documents that identify

8 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of 0 0 a separate person, a second person, and without having knowledge of the entire context, it's going to be difficult to make that connection. And for us to release one and not the other, it just would not be beneficial to the plaintiff. Also, in terms of referrals, without having an understanding of the larger context, we may be referring duplicates and triplicates to other agencies, should that kind of a situation come up, and we don't know if it will, but that's an issue as well. THE COURT: Well, I'm willing to come back in three months and get a report. If you've made substantial progress everywhere else, I might be able to see where we are then on that. I'm not sure I can live with that, but since you have made some progress, I'm willing to come back in June and see where we are then. Hopefully, you'll be halfway through the folders and mostly done the director's stuff. Does the th of June at :0 look good? MS. MOMENI: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: That look okay for y'all? MR. LESAR: Pardon? What date was that again? THE COURT: June. MR. LESAR: I think that will be all right with me, Your Honor. MR. CLARKE: That's all right for me, Your Honor. Thank you.

9 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of 0 MR. LESAR: I would like to ask one further thing of the Court. If we could require the CIA to make its report with a declaration, say 0 days prior to the date of the status call, that would be helpful so we can prepare for it. THE COURT: That's fine. MS. MOMENI: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Anything else y'all want to raise today? MS. MOMENI: Nothing from the agency, Your Honor. MR. CLARKE: Nothing from Accuracy Media, Your Honor. MR. LESAR: No, sir. THE COURT: Okay. To the extent they can show you a sample folder and y'all can talk about the documents in a sample folder and what you're really interested in, maybe you can reduce some of that so that folders can be finished by June. I don't know what your interest is in some of those documents she's talking about. Thank you very much, Counsel. (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT : a.m.) 0

10 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page 0 of 0 * * * * * CERTIFICATE I, BRYAN A. WAYNE, Official Court Reporter, certify that the foregoing pages are a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. BRYAN A. WAYNE 0 0

11 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of [] - : 0- [] - : 0 [] - : 00 [] - :0 00 [] - : 0,000 [] - :, : [] - : 00 [] - :, : [] - :, : th [] - : 000 [] - :, : 000- [] - : 0 [] - : 0 [] - :, :, :0, : 00 [] - :0 00 [] - : 0-0 [] - :0-00 [] - : [] - : - [] - : [] - :, : - [] - : [] - : 0-A [] - : [] - : 0 [] - :,000 [] - : :0 [] - : :0 [] - : : [] - : A a.m [] - :, : able [] - :, :, :0, :, :0, :, :, :, : above-entitled [] - 0: Accuracy [] - :, :, :0 action [] - : Adam [] - :, : add [] - : adhere [] - : ADJOURNED [] - : advised [] - :, : agencies [] - : AGENCY [] - : agency [] - :, :, :, :, : Agency [] - : agency's [] - : aided [] - : al [] - :, : APPEARANCES [] - :0 archive [] - : archives [] - :0, :, :0 area [] - : aside [] - : AT [] - : Attorney's [] - :, : AUSA [] - : automated [] - : Avenue [] - : B basis [] - :0, : BEFORE [] - : behalf [] - :, : believes [] - : beneficial [] - : benefits [] - : best [] - : boxes [] - : briefly [] - :, : broadly [] - : BRYAN [] - :, 0:, 0: C ca [] - : Cadre [] - :, :, :, :0 case [] - :, : cases [] - : categories [] - : category [] - : Central [] - : CENTRAL [] - : certain [] - : CERTIFICATE [] - 0: certify [] - 0: check [] - :, :0 CIA [] - :, :, :, :0, :0, : circumstances [] - : Civil [] - : civil [] - : CLARKE [] - :, :, :, :, :, :0 Clarke [] - :, :, : classified [] - : clear [] - : clearly [] - : CLERK [] - : clients [] - : clustered [] - :0 COLUMBIA [] - : committee [] - : complete [] - :, :, :, : completed [] - :, : computer [] - : computer-aided [] - : concerned [] - : conferring [] - :, : congressional [] - : connection [] - : considered [] - : Constitution [] - : consult [] - :0 contain [] - : context [] - :, :, :, : cooperatively [] - : coordination [] - : copies [] - :0 correct [] - :, 0: counsel [] - :, : Counsel [] - :, : COURT [] - :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, : Court [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, 0: court's [] - : Courthouse [] - : CRR [] - : cut [] - :, :0 D D.C [] - : database [] - : date [] - :, :0, : days [] - : DC [] - :, :, :0, : December [] - :, : declaration [] - : Defendant [] - :, : DEPUTY [] - : details [] - : determined [] - :, : difficult [] - :, :, :0, : director's [] - :, : discussed [] - : DISTRICT [] - :, :, : Division [] - : document [] - :, :, :, :, :0, : documents [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : DOD [] - :, : done [] - :, : double [] - : double-check [] - : down [] - :, :, : duplicates [] - :, :, :, :, : E end [] - : entire [] - :, : entitled [] - 0: ESQ [] - :, : et [] - :, : everywhere [] - : example [] - :, :0, :, :, : explanation [] - : extent [] - : F faster [] - : figure [] - : finally [] - : fine [] - : finish [] - :, : finished [] - : first [] - :, :0 folder [] - :, : folders [] - :, :, :, : FOR [] - : foregoing [] - 0: forth [] - : forward [] - : four [] - :, : Fourth [] - : full [] - : G government [] - : H halfway [] - : hall [] - :, :, : HALL [] - : Hall [] - :, :, :, : hard [] - :0, : hear [] - : HEARING [] - : hearing [] - : helpful [] - : hit [] - : hits [] - :, :, :, : Honor [] - :, :,

12 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0 HONORABLE [] - : hope [] - :, :, : hopefully [] - : HR [] - :0 HR-related [] - :0 hundred [] - :0, :, : hundred-page [] - :0 identify [] - : immediate [] - : impede [] - : Inc [] - :, : incredibly [] - : index [] - : indulgence [] - : information [] - :, :, : informed [] - : Intelligence [] - : INTELLIGENCE [] - : interest [] - :, : interested [] - :, : introduce [] - : involves [] - : issue [] - : it'll [] - :0 items [] - : I J JAMES [] - : James [] - : job [] - : JOHN [] - : John [] - :, : JUDGE [] - : June [] - :, :, :, : K kin [] - : kind [] - : knowledge [] - : L LAMBERTH [] - : large [] - :, : larger [] - :, : last [] - : Law [] - : least [] - :0 leave [] - : left [] - : lesar [] - : Lesar [] - : LESAR [] - :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, : limiting [] - : live [] - : look [] - :, :, :, : looking [] - :, :, :0, :, : M main [] - : March [] - : matter [] - 0: mean [] - : means [] - : meant [] - :0 Media [] - :, :, :0 MERCEDEH [] - : Mercedeh [] - :0 might [] - : minute [] - :0 miscellaneous [] - : missed [] - : MOMENI [] - :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : Momeni [] - :, :, : moment [] - : months [] - :, :, :, :, : morning [] - :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, : mostly [] - : MR [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :0, : MS [] - :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, : N name [] - :, :, : name's [] - : names [] - :, : nature [] - : need [] - : needs [] - : news [] - :, :, : next [] - : next-of-kin [] - : nothing [] - :, :0 number [] - :, :, : NW [] - :, :, :, : O OF [] - :, : offered [] - : Office [] - :, :, : Official [] - :, 0: once [] - : one [] - :, :0, :, : ordered [] - : P page [] - :0, :, :, :, :0, : pages [] - :0, :, :, :0, :, 0: paid [] - : paper [] - : pardon [] - :0 parties [] - : patient [] - : period [] - : person [] - :, : personnel [] - :, :0, : piece [] - : places [] - : Plaintiff [] - : plaintiff [] - :, : plaintiffs [] - :, :, :, :, : Plaintiffs [] - :, : plaintiffs' [] - : pleased [] - : possession [] - :, : prepare [] - : previous [] - : previously [] - : problem [] - :, :, :, : Proceedings [] - : PROCEEDINGS [] - : proceedings [] - 0: process [] - :, : processing [] - :, :, : produced [] - :, :, :, :, : production [] - :0 productions [] - : progress [] - :, : provided [] - :, : pull [] - : put [] - : Q quite [] - : R raise [] - : rate [] - : rather [] - :, :, : RCL [] - : re [] - : re-release [] - : really [] - : reason [] - : received [] - : record [] - 0: records [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, : reduce [] - :, : referrals [] - :, : referred [] - :0 referring [] - : regard [] - : related [] - :0 releasable [] - : release [] - :, :, : releases [] - :0, :, :, :, :, : report [] - :, : reported [] - : Reporter [] - :, :, 0: representative [] - : representing [] - : request [] - : require [] - : resend [] - : resolve [] - : respect [] - : response [] - : responsive [] - :, :, :, : Results [] - :, : ROGER [] - : Roger [] - :, :, : rolling [] - :0, :, :, :, :, :0, :, : Room [] - : ROYCE [] - : RPR [] - : run [] - : S sample [] - : sampling [] - : Samuel [] - : Samuelsen [] - : schedule [] - : scope [] - : search [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, : searchers [] - : second [] - :, : see [] - :, :0, :, : sent [] - :, : separate [] - :, : set [] - :, :, : several [] - :, : shorter [] - :, : shorthand [] - : show [] - : sick [] - : single [] - :0, :, :, :, : sit [] - :, :

13 Case :0-cv-00-RCL Document Filed 0// Page of situation [] - : six [] - :, : Solutions [] - :, : sometimes [] - : sort [] - : spent [] - : STATES [] - :, : status [] - : STATUS [] - : stenotype [] - : still [] - :, :, : Street [] - :, :, : Studies [] - :, : stuff [] - :0, : subcategories [] - : substantial [] - : suggested [] - : suggestion [] - : Suite [] - :, : system [] - : V versus [] - : W wait [] - : Washington [] - :, :, :, :0, : WAYNE [] - :, 0:, 0: willing [] - :, :, :0, : writing [] - : Y y'all [] - :, :, : year [] - :0, : yourself [] - : T terms [] - : THE [] - :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :, :0, :, :, :, :, : three [] - :0 today [] - : took [] - :0 transcript [] - :, 0: TRANSCRIPT [] - : transcription [] - : triplicates [] - : Tuesday [] - : two [] - :, : type [] - : types [] - : U U.S [] - :, :, : under [] - : UNITED [] - :, : universe [] - : up [] - :, :, :

CLERK OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 111 NW 1 Street, Commission Conference Room Thursday, October 8, 3:30 p.m.

CLERK OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS NW Street, Commission Conference Room Thursday, October, 0 @ :0 p.m. VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD INTERGOVERNMENTAL SERVICES DIVISION 0 BOARD MEMBERS (Present) Commissioner