UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL CENTER FOR LOWELL HISTORY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL CENTER FOR LOWELL HISTORY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION LOWELL NATIONAL HISTORICAL PARK UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL ETHNIC SOLIDARITY AND FRAGMENTATION INFORMANT: PHIL LEHNER INTERVIEWER: MEHMED ALI DATE: FEBRUARY 8, 1999 A = ALI P = PHIL Tape 99.02 A: Okay, this is interview with Philip Lehner, February 8 th, 1999. And uh (--) P: Why don t I start off and try to discuss how we, the Lehner family got involved with Merrimack Manufacturing. (A: Umhm) I m not sure the year, but around um, Thanksgiving time the owner of the mill at that time was a Mr. Jacob Ziskind, of the Crescent Corporation. And he died around Thanksgiving time. And his lawyer Mr. Abe Berkowicz, with Roakes/Gray, (A: Okay) was put in charge of selling Merrimack Manufacturing Company, which he d bought maybe a year or two earlier. It turned out for some tax reasons that if the Merrimack was sold very quickly before the end of the year there could be some big tax savings. (A: Really? Yeah) So they, Mr. Berkowicz contacted Malcolm Chace of the Berkshire Fine Spinners, who was a very important textile owner in Massachusetts. And Malcolm Chace was a friend of my father s, and it was decided we d buy the company. I think the Chaces bought 60% and we bought 40%, or something of that nature. (A: Okay) And the transaction was handled very quickly. Um, the price was supposedly a very low price, because we bought it for less than the bet that quick, which means you get all of the inventory and the machinery for nothing. Supposedly anybody who buys a factory on that basis can only make money, but that s not true. We lost money. A: Did you? P: The (--) We ran the mill for a few years. At one point we spent a lot of money, could easily be 500, or a million dollars, which in those days was an enormous amount of money, to buy new looms. And um, the mill had its usual ups and downs. The mill was a mill making corduroys and velveteen. (A: Umhm) Their specialty was velveteen, and there were only a few mills in the states making velveteen. I think Merrimack was the 1

largest. (A: Okay) They found that their prices were badly affected by the Japanese imports, and eventually after two or three years of unprofitable business, we asked the Customs to put anti-dumping duties on velveteen coming from Japan. The Customs Department had a, made a study and they came out with a unanimous decision that dumping should apply. However it doesn t, it takes a decision of the president to act on the recommendation of the Customs Commissioners, (A: Umhm, there is.) and he had six months to make a decision. The President was President Eisenhower in that time. And with the best of his best judgement he decided not to put dumping duties, and very shortly after that we started to liquidate the mill. (A: Yeah) Um, that s really, (--) By the time we liquidated it um, we were able to lose money on it because we had operating losses to absorb. The buildings were then empty. And of course we tried to find somebody who would buy them, or have something to do with them. (A: Umhm) The City of Lowell, I believe the taxes were $70,000 a year, which in those days was an enormous amount of money. (A: Yeah) And the city, we tried to negotiate with them to give us a holiday on the taxes, or lower taxes, but they weren t interested in negotiating. (A: Hmm) So in order to reduce our tax bill of $70,000 every year, we invested money to tear down several of the nicest buildings, buildings that were made of stone if I recall correctly. And uh, would have been handsome structures today. (A: Hmm) Um, I m not sure what else I can say. Um, during the period we had Merrimack we did a lot of things to try to make sales. We even had a fashion show in the Opera House in New York City. A: Really? P: Trying to stir up excitement for velveteen particularly. A: Now what Opera House was that? P: I m not sure, but it was in New York City at one of the, I think it was the Opera House, one of them [few words unclear]. Um, it all shows you how difficult it is to make money in the textile business. A: [Chuckling] Which you re still proving today? P: Absolutely! A: Um, let me ask you a couple of questions about um, how did your family get started in the textile business? P: My father came over from Germany as a cotton buyer in 19ll, (A: Umhm) um, before World War I. And when World War I started the cotton exports seized because of the [unclear] activities. And he had to get a job, and he got a job in the textile, textile mill in Fall River, and finally got into the textile waste business in New England. A: What s the textile waste? 2

P: Textile waste is the bi-products from textile mills. When the cotton mills open a bale of cotton, about 10% of the material is separated as short fibers, dirt mixed with fibers, or in the making of, in spinning you have yarn waste, and in weaving you have cloth waste from the looms. And the textile waste business um, when there was a lot of textiles around New England was a sizeable activity, but of course as the mills disappeared there was no more generation of waste. And the textile waste business is pretty well disappeared from New England. And um, it s declining in the south, because in the south mills are closing too. A: Yeah. Now what would, what would textile waste be used for? P: The better grades of waste would be used for absorbent cotton, or making it into paper. Other grades are make into mop yarns, or butcher twines, or um, stuffing in caskets, or pillows, (A: um) or mattresses, or automobiles, sound deadening padding, and so on. A: I see. Now you ended up working for the family business? (P: Yeah, umhm) Okay. And um, now you said uh, what year did the families buy the Merrimack? P: I don t remember. (A: Okay) It probably shows in some deeds, or something or other. A: Yeah. Yeah. Did you know the previous owners, the Ziskinds? P: Abe Ziskind was a good friend of my father s. He was a, what they call a mill liquidator. He bought, buy mills that were closing and sell off the machinery. (A: Okay) And uh, a very abled, nice person. Um, I m not sure at all how he acquired Merrimack, because um, or who the previous owners were. I don t, I don t recall. A: Now did you go up to Lowell to look at the mills often? P: We were there quite often. And um, there were other textile mills in Lowell at that time. There is the Boott Mill, and um, I ve forgotten the names of some of the others, but Lowell had quite a few. And they all, many of them we bought waste from. So we had good reason to visit there. One gentlemen that might have some memory of Lowell in those days, Mr. Flather. Have you run across him? A: I think he s passed, but his son is around, and the papers are located at the University of Lowell. P: Oh well. Because the Flather family was very much involved in textiles in Lowell. A: Yeah. 3

P: And the senior member may have died, because he could well be in the 90 s. (A: Yeah) But uh, they were very much involved with that area. A: Yeah. How would you describe the Merrimack as far as its physical state during the time that you folks were running it. P: It was a big mill. Fifteen, or a hundred or two thousand employees. And it was a mill that went from cotton, all the way to make yarn, to weave it, to dye it, and finish it. A lot of mills only, some mills only make yarn, some make yarn and fabric, but mills that are completely integrated in going into the finishing and dying are quite exceptional. This was a very big one. A: Um. Now you said velveteen was one of its major products. What were some of the other products? P: The other one was corduroy. (A: corduroy?) Corduroy is, velveteen is a more expensive fabric than corduroy. And velveteen I think, is always made out of combed yarns. (A: Okay) And uh, it s a nice fabric. There s almost no velveteen made in the United States today I believe. (A: Really?) Um, I think it s all imported if there (--) And its very much of a fashion item, and I don t think it s that much strong in fashion today. (A: Yeah) Corduroy also, I would think are less in fashion today than they used to be. (A: Yeah) Um, but there were many corduroy mills, like [unclear] mills in the south, and others then, and were many corduroy mills at that time too. It was just in velveteen that um, Merrimack was pretty unique in the important and significant, yeah. A: Yeah. Now who oversaw the running of the mill up there? P: Mr. Wilson did I think. A: Mr. Wilson, yeah. P: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A: And um, who were other important people involved in the day to day operation? P: I ve forgotten the name of the treasurer, or the other people. I just don t recall. It s been so many years ago. A: Yeah. Now the Board of Directors, was that made up of the two families exclusively? P: I believe so, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A: You talked about President Eisenhower s trade policies affecting the mills. Um, why do you think he made those decisions? 4

P: I think politically we didn t want to offend the Japanese, whatever their situation was at that time, I don t know. A: Um. So do you think he sacrificed this industry for other political decisions? P: You know if would seem so, but he may have had good reason. (A: Yeah) You know, and uh, it s not unusual when these things happen like this. (A: Yeah) So um, um, for long periods, for the history of the textile business people in Washington feel that it s an industry more appropriate outside the United States. (A: Really?) It s industry that other countries can develop, and we should be not focused on it. So um, there s been many other examples where the government refuses to give textile as much protection. And that s why the textile industry is pretty well disappearing. One reason at least, yeah. A: Yeah. How did you feel about those decisions? P: Well the President s decision, we obviously were unhappy about, but I think we were most unhappy that it took them six months to decide. Because during those six months we were just plain losing money. And it would have been better if we could have decided sooner so we would have stopped losing money month after month. (A: Yeah) But uh, I m not critical, in that Washington has lots of good reasons for doing things. In all likelihood the mill would be closed anyway at a certain point, because like all textile mills in New England, the conditions here didn t allow to be very competitive against other areas. A: And what were some of those conditions? P: Well I think the wages were higher of course. You have more freight on the cotton coming in from those cotton-growing areas. (A: Umhm) Um, I would say those (--) The reasons that all the textile mills in New England disappeared would be common to Merrimack too. A: Yeah. How about the working conditions for employees at the Merrimack? P: I would say they were about typical of a textile mill at that time, yeah. A: And so what s typical? P: Um, well the mills were not air-conditioned, they were not um, fancy. Um, but um, they were I would say, normal industrial environment. A: Umhm. Um, we talked about trying to get Lowell to negotiate with the taxes. Could you explain more about that as you recall? P: Well the story wasn t, it was just about quite simple. We couldn t sell the buildings. A: Why couldn t you sell the buildings? 5

P: We couldn t find a buyer. (A: Really?) And uh, there were lots of empty textile mills at that time all over the place. Not only in Lowell, but in Lawrence and every other place. And um, so we were just eating money. A: How long did you folks attempt to sell the Merrimack for? P: I think we had it for two or three years (A: really?) before we tore the buildings down. Now as I recall we didn t tear all of the buildings down. We just tore a bunch of them down, but I m not sure. A: Yeah. Um, do you recall or/and understand the relationship between the Merrimack Manufacturing and the Locks and Canals? P: I think we, Merrimack was the part owner with Locks and Canals, which is a waterway system, and power system. And that s what our relationship with them was. A: Yeah. Did that ever become a sticking point for the, for the Merrimack? P: I don t recall whether the Locks and Canals was an asset or a liability. Um, certainly at one point it was an asset, because he made power. (A: Yup) Another point it could be a liability, because maintaining them could have been expensive. (A: Um) And we probably had a responsibility for some percentage of the maintenance, but I don t have any recollection of the subject frankly. A: Uh, can you recall when it was decided to shut down production at the Merrimack? P: No, but it was very surely after the President came out with that decision, whatever year that was. A: Yeah, okay. And what were the plans for the property after the mill was shut down? P: Try to sell it. A: Okay. And how did that unfold? P: Unsuccessfully. That s why we kept trying to, we sold off the machinery. (A: Okay) And the buildings were there and we couldn t sell them, and that s why eventually we had to tear some of them down. A: I see. So um, you weren t actively marketing the mills when the production was going? P: Whether we tried to sell the mills when it was running, I m not sure. It s not very easy to sell a mill that s losing money. Um, there s not a great many customers. 6

A: I see. Um, now once the mill was shut down, um, you hired people to act as agents to sell off the land? P: I assume so. A: Yeah. Do you recall a person you hired was Frank Barrett? Did you have any dealings with him? P: Yeah, I think I recall the name. Definitely. I m not sure exactly what his function was at all. (A: Okay) But Frank Barrett sounded like a name I d heard, you know? A: Yeah. (P: Yup) So you don t know why he was chosen to be the (--) P: No, and I m not sure what he was doing either, [phone rings in background] but the name sounds, rings a bell. A: Yeah. Um, when the mills were closed did you have any relationship with the employees, and hear how they felt about the shutdown? P: I m sure others did. I wasn t that close to it, you know? A: And did any politicians react to the closing of the mills? P: This I don t know. A: Okay. Um, so who did you sell the machinery to? P: I don t know. We would have sold it through some machinery disposal company. A: Okay. Do you recall plans for the uses of the land once you sold it? P: I don t. I m sure we scratch our heads to try to find some market for the land, or reuse for it. A: Yeah. I know one of the parcels was sold for the Post Office. P: That s right, the Post Office bought some. A: Yeah. Do you know how that unfolded? P: No, but it brought in money. That was good news. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (A: Um) That s correct, part of it was sold to the Post Office. A: Another parcel I believed was sold for uh, a bank to set up shop. The Union National Bank? 7

P: This I don t recall. A: Okay. Let s see, um, I just want to ask you about a few personalities. Um, now your father was Hans Lehner? (P: Yes) Yeah, just tell me a little bit about him. P: Well he was uh, prominent in the textile waste business in New England, and that s why Malcolm Chace knew him. (A: Yeah) And um, in the waste business we had contact with most, many many textile mills. (A: Umhm) And uh, so he was pretty well known from that point of view. (A: Yeah) We had not been in textile manufacturing, we were simply buying waste, (A: right) which was the first venture as part owner in a textile mill. A: Oh when you bought the Merrimack? P: Yeah. Yeah. A: So was it new ground? Did you guys have to uh (--) P: Well it was a new ground, yeah. Yeah. A: How did your father do in his business? P: Not so well, we lost money. [Laughs] A: Um, how about the Chaces? P: Well the Chace family had been in textiles for generations, or at least a generation or two (A: okay), and owned a significant part of Berkshire Fine Spinners, which was head of, he d head probably fifteen mills (A: wow) in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. And uh, they were you might say, textile manufacturers, with experience in that. A: Umhm. Umhm. Um, could you describe them, how they were personally? P: Oh very nice, civilized, responsible people. And uh, very prominent in the industry. A: Now when you were growing up were you interested in following in your father s footsteps? P: In the textile waste business, yes. Yeah, yeah. A: And um, when that kind of fell by the wayside you got more into textile manufacturing again, or? P: No, this was our, I would say our own [unclear]. We didn t have many adventures in textile manufacturing. (A: Umhm) 8

A: Um, who, who were anybody else that was important to the Merrimack Manufacturing that you dealt with? P: It s so far back I don t recall the names anymore. A: Yeah. Did you meet any people up there in Lowell that you dealt with? P: I knew a few, but I didn t know them that well. A: Yeah, um, did you ever have any dealings with Edith Nourse Rogers who was the Representative up there? P: Edith Nourse Rogers, um, I don t know. A: Um, how about a guy, Homer Bourgeois, he was a banker? P: Homer Bourgeois, I don t recall that name either. A: Is there any final thoughts you have about the Wanskuck Company, and the Merrimack Manufacturing? P: The Wanskuck? Well the Wanskuck was a different company. That was a company in Rhode Island making um, worsted materials. A: Right, but wasn t the Merrimack sold to the Wanskuck? P: I think it was sold to Wanskuck, so that Wanskuck could use the tax loss carried forward, or something of that nature. A: Okay, could you describe how that works? P: No precisely, because I don t remember. A: Okay) And I maybe wrong. A: Okay. P: But I do know that we got involved with Wanskuck after Merrimack. And um, Wanskuck made worsteds, also a big mill, but we had the good fortune of liquidated that before we starting losing money. A: Okay. Now were the Lehners also involved in that with the Chaces? P: Yes, yeah. Yeah. A: All right. Um, well that s all I have. P: Well, sorry I don t have more, but (--) 9

A: Okay. Well that s two interesting insights. P: I don t know if there s anything you didn t have before, but anyway it s the history of New England. A: Okay. Well that s good. Well thanks for your time. P: You re welcome. The end 10