1 CIVIL DISTRICT COURT PARISH OF ORLEANS 2 STATE OF LOUISIANA JURY TRIAL

Transcription

1 1 CIVIL DISTRICT COURT PARISH OF ORLEANS 2 STATE OF LOUISIANA 3 4 JURY TRIAL 5 K. D. D. SMITH, ET AL. * NO * 6 VERSUS * DIVISION "L" * 7 ALPHA THERAPEUTICS, * SECTION 15 ARMOUR PHARMACEUTICAL * 8 COMPANY, CUTTER BIOLOGICAL,* a division of MILES, INC., * 9 HYLAND THERAPEUTICS, a * division of BAXTER * 10 HEALTHCARE CORPORATION, * THE ADMINISTRATORS OF THE * 11 TULANE EDUCATIONAL FUND, * TULANE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, * 12 MEDICINE, and DR. W. ABE * ANDES * 13 * * * * * * * * * * * Testimony and notes of evidence, taken in the above-entitled 16 cause, before the HONORABLE MAX N. TOBIAS, JR., commencing at 9:23 o'clock 17 a.m., on Thursday, the 10th day of December, APPEARANCES: 20 MULL AND MULL Attorneys at Law 21 (By: Thomas W. Mull, Esquire) 729 East Boston Street 22 Post Office Box 1474 Covington, Louisiana AND

2 1 W I T N E S S I N D E X 2 PAGE 3 CHARLES SMILEY 13 4 San Bernardino, California 5 RICHARD HAROLD VINCENT 45 Louisiana State Penitentiary 6 Angola, Louisiana E X H I B I T S "Exhibit Number 5000": 41 "Exhibit Number 5000-A": * * * * * * *

3 1 So I am instructing you at 2 this time that if I sustain an objection 3 and you do hear all or part of the 4 answer, that you shall disregard the 5 answer if I sustain an objection. 6 I may also instruct you, as 7 an alternative, I will strike the 8 evidence, which means you don't even 9 consider any part of it. And this is 10 one of the problems we run into with 11 videotaped depositions. 12 So we're going to be able to 13 try and -- we're going to try to make it 14 as clear as possible to you and to limit 15 it as much as we feasibly can, but I 16 can't guarantee perfection because of 17 the nature of the -- of what's going to 18 be played. 19 One moment. Okay. Play 20 your video. 21 (Whereupon the playing of 22 the videotaped deposition of Richard 23 Vincent, dated August 4, 1998, was 24 commenced.) 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 26 This is the videotaped 27 deposition of Richard Vincent being held 45

4 1 at the Louisiana State Penitentiary in 2 Angola, Louisiana on August 4th, 1998, 3 at the time indicated on the video 4 screen which is 10:29. 5 My name is Todd Meaux and 6 I'm a certified legal video specialist 7 with Depo-Vue. The court reporter is 8 Cheryl Huffman with Huffman and 9 Robinson. 10 Would counsel present please 11 introduce themselves? 12 MR. MULL: 13 My name is Tom Mull, I 14 represent the plaintiffs in this action. 15 MS. PHARES: 16 Fran Phares here on behalf 17 of the plaintiffs. 18 MR. HILL: 19 Michael Hill here on behalf 20 of the plaintiffs. 21 MR. ACCARDO: 22 Frank Accardo representing 23 Armour Pharmaceutical Company. 24 MR. BERKMAN: 25 Richard Berkman representing 26 Baxter Healthcare. 27 MR. CHASSAIGNAC: 46

5 1 I'm Charles Chassaignac. 2 And I represent Bayer Corporation. 3 MS. KATZ: 4 Diane Katz here for Alpha 5 Therapeutic Corporation. 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 7 Would you please swear in 8 the witness? 9 (Witness was sworn.) 10 MR. MULL: 11 Before we begin, can we 12 engage in the customary agreement that 13 we save all objections except to the 14 form and responsiveness of the answer 15 for use at a later date? 16 MR. BERKMAN: 17 I don't think we can because 18 I don't know if this witness will be 19 available at a later date. And I think 20 to preserve the record, we need to make 21 all of our -- well, we need to make as 22 many objections as we think 23 appropriate. 24 I do agree, however, that 25 maybe we can stipulate that an objection 26 by one party serves as an objection by 27 all so that we don't have to be 47

6 1 redundant. 2 MR. MULL: 3 Sure. 4 MR. BERKMAN: 5 But I would like to -- Yes, 6 we are reserving objections for the 7 Court to rule on. But I think to the 8 extent we have objections, we should try 9 and articulate them at this time. 10 MR. MULL: 11 Okay. I can only ask for 12 the stipulation, that's all I can do. 13 Ready to begin? 14 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 15 Q. For the record, my name is 16 Tom Mull. I'm going to be questioning 17 Mr. Richard Vincent. Would you make a 18 record and state your name in full for 19 the court reporter, please? 20 A. Richard Harold Vincent. 21 Q. And what is your date of 22 birth, Mr. Vincent? 23 A Q. And for the people who may 25 be viewing this or reading it later, 26 what are the circumstances of who you 27 are and where we are today? 48

7 1 A. I'm an inmate at the 2 Louisiana State Penitentiary here in 3 Angola. 4 Q. And you've been asked to 5 come down and give your deposition for 6 this litigation? 7 A. (Witness nods head 8 affirmatively.) Yes, sir. 9 Q. And do you do so 10 voluntarily? 11 A. (Witness nods head 12 affirmatively.) Yes, sir. 13 MR. CHASSAIGNAC: 14 Before we go any further, 15 I'd just like to make a general 16 objection as to the relevancy of the 17 testimony and the admissibility of this 18 deposition at any later proceedings 19 because of that reason. 20 MR. MULL: 21 What reason is that? 22 MS. PHARES: 23 Because of what reason? 24 MR. CHASSAIGNAC: 25 Because of the relevancy of 26 the testimony of the witness. I don't 27 think it will be relevant to this action. 49

8 1 (Without the videotape being 2 suspended, the following dialogue 3 occurred.) 4 THE COURT: 5 Overruled. 6 (Resumption of the playing 7 of the videotape.) 8 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 9 Q. Mr. Vincent, what are you in 10 Angola for? What crimes? 11 A. Simple burglary. 12 Q. And what is your sentence? 13 A. I've got nineteen years, two 14 months and three days. 15 Q. And when did you first start 16 serving this nineteen-year plus 17 sentence? 18 A Q. And where were you first 20 incarcerated and serving this sentence 21 in the Louisiana penitentiary system? 22 A. Here at Angola. 23 Q. And when was that? 24 A. I came in ' Q. How old were you then, Mr. 26 Vincent? 27 A. Twenty, 21, somewhere in 50

9 1 there. 2 Q. During the course of time 3 that you have served in the Louisiana 4 State Penitentiary system, particularly 5 Angola starting in 1978, I want you to 6 take me through your participation, if 7 any, in the plasma program at Angola. 8 And would you start with the first time 9 you were introduced to the program? 10 And I think there may be 11 some objections. 12 MR. CHASSAIGNAC: 13 Yes, there's an objection. 14 I object to the form of the question. I 15 think that the question is not -- is 16 contrary to the facts insofar as this 17 prisoner is concerned, where he may have 18 been incarcerated. 19 I think the form of your 20 question would seem to lead someone 21 who's looking at this to conclude that 22 Mr. Vincent has been here at Angola 23 since 1977 and that his prison sentence 24 here is the result of some, only some 25 action in prior to I think 26 none of those are accurate facts, as the 27 record will show. 51

10 1 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 2 Q. Well, let's try to clear the 3 record up then, Mr. Vincent. Would you 4 relate to the people here and anybody 5 who may be viewing this later what you 6 were in for in 1977 and how long you 7 were here in Angola as a result of that 8 sentence? 9 A. I came in '77 on simple 10 burglaries. I paroled out in '81 or 11 '82, somewhere in there. 12 Q. Okay. And then you were 13 involved in other incidents in which you 14 were A. The same thing. 16 Q. -- reincarcerated? 17 A. The same thing, burglaries. 18 Q. And when you were 19 reincarcerated, did you spend your serve your time in the Louisiana State 21 Penitentiary system on these later 22 occasions? 23 A. (Witness nods head 24 affirmatively.) I spent some time here 25 and I spent some time in DeQuincy and 26 LCIS, DCI, and I'm back over here again. 27 Q. Okay. We'll take this 52

11 1 through chronologically at a later 2 point. I want to ask you some questions 3 now about the first occasion you were 4 incarcerated at Angola between the and '81 or '82 time period; is that 6 correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. What was your first 9 experience with the plasma center at 10 Angola? 11 MS. KATZ: 12 Objection. Lacks foundation. 13 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 14 Q. Have you ever been a plasma 15 donor at Angola? 16 A. Yes, I have. 17 Q. Have you ever sold your 18 plasma at Angola? 19 A. Yes, I have. 20 Q. What was the first occasion 21 you had to do that? 22 A. I don't really understand 23 what you're -- How you get on to the 24 plasma? 25 Q. Yes. 26 A. Okay. You just write your 27 name and your D.O.C. number down and 53

12 1 give it to an inmate that's already a 2 bleeder there. And they bring it over 3 there, they put you on the call-out. 4 And once your name is on the call-out, 5 you're eligible to go. 6 You go over there and they 7 take a little physical. It's a little 8 doctor there, he just asks you if you 9 had a tattoo within six months, if you 10 have hepatitis. Then that's it, you're 11 a bleeder. 12 Q. When was the first time you 13 had the opportunity to sell your plasma 14 at the Angola system? 15 A. It was when I first came 16 down here. It was '77, '78, somewhere The year, I'm not for sure which year 18 I came down, you know, it's been so long. 19 But that's the year that I started 20 selling. 21 Q. How were you paid if you 22 participated in this program? 23 A. For each bleed, for each 24 bleed that you bleed, you was getting 25 fifteen dollars a bleed. You got paid It was like if you bled like on a 27 Monday, then you bled like on a 54

13 1 Overruled. 2 (Resumption of the playing 3 of the videotape.) 4 A. Well, I mean, you could go 5 to the canteen and buy a carton of 6 Camels back then for six or seven 7 dollars a carton. And you could bring 8 that and get that to an inmate at the 9 plasma and they would make sure that you 10 was put on call-out. 11 I mean, it didn't matter if 12 you had hepatitis A, B or C. You know, 13 well, C just came out. They just 14 discovered that not long ago. But A and 15 B was the main back then. And if you 16 had it, you could still bleed at the 17 center. 18 Q. So we can better understand 19 what you're saying, would you explain to 20 the people here the setup? And just why 21 don't you take us through a typical 22 bleed during this time period where you 23 were first incarcerated here? You would 24 go in -- You would be called out, you 25 would go in and then take it from there. 26 A. Okay. You was on call-out. 27 Security would check your name on the 57

14 1 call-out. Then they'd load you on a bus 2 and they'd bring you over to the plasma 3 center, which we called the plasma 4 center. 5 When you got there, you gave 6 your I.D. to an inmate. And he pulled 7 your folder, like a folder like this 8 (indicating), he'd pull your folder and 9 he'd pass it on to some more inmates in 10 another part of the building. 11 They would poke your finger, 12 put it in that little old tube, and 13 they'd spin it. While they're doing 14 that, one would take your blood 15 pressure, all right? And then after you 16 went through the little procedure with 17 the inmates, you waited for the -- you 18 waited for your bed to open up, you 19 know. It was like a little waiting 20 room. But you waited for your bed to 21 open up for them to call you. 22 And there was, you know, 23 right when you walk in the door, there 24 was a bathroom on the left-hand side. 25 And then it went on, you know, to where 26 you got your blood -- your finger, your 27 blood pressure, and stuff like that. 58

15 1 Q. Okay. Let's stop right 2 there and then we'll finish out what 3 happens when you're actually bled. But 4 you go into the room. Are there other 5 people present in the room with you? 6 A. (Witness nods head 7 affirmatively.) Oh, you know, it all 8 depends how many was on call-out that 9 day. You know, you might have 10 seventy-five, eighty, a hundred people 11 in there, you know, bleeding. 12 Q. And you received -- I 13 believe you testified you received a 14 physical when you first started the 15 program; is that correct? 16 A. (Witness nods head 17 affirmatively.) The first time that I 18 bled, I received one. 19 Q. And how long did that 20 physical take? 21 A. If it took four minutes, it 22 was too long. 23 Q. Were you given a physical at 24 each and every bleed after that? 25 A. (Witness shakes head 26 negatively.) No. The only thing -- The 27 only -- No physical from a doctor, no. 59

16 1 The only thing that you did was they 2 poked your finger and the blood 3 pressure, you know. 4 But, I mean, if you was -- 5 if you was cool -- which, you know, if 6 y'all understand my language -- if you 7 was cool with the guys that worked in 8 the plasma, then you didn't go through 9 the little routine. It was just checked 10 off that you was all right. 11 Q. Well, you referred to the 12 guys who worked in the plasma center. 13 Who were these guys? 14 A. This was -- This is inmates. 15 Q. Inmates actually staffed the 16 plasma center? 17 A. (Witness nods head 18 affirmatively.) Yeah. 19 Q. Who pricked your finger and 20 took your A. Inmates pricked your finger, 22 inmates gave your blood pressure, 23 inmates pulled your record, inmates 24 cleaned the little thing on your arm 25 where you was going to get stuck. 26 You had -- I don't know what 27 they called them but they went around 60

17 1 and they stuck your arm, okay? Once 2 they stuck the needle in your arm, that 3 was it. I mean, they didn't come back. 4 The inmates pulled the bags, 5 inmates tied them, inmates brought them 6 over to the counter. Another inmate 7 took it and put it in the machine, spun 8 it, took the plasma out, burnt the line. 9 How they burn a line, they 10 give it back to an inmate, he goes back 11 to the bed. "Is this your bag?" 12 "Yeah." You read your number, your 13 name, you know, and stuff like that. He 14 puts it on the, we call it water, but 15 it's -- I don't remember what it is. 16 But, anyway, they put the water in it 17 and shake it up, turn the bag upside 18 down on the pole, open the line and let 19 it go back in you. 20 And then once that's 21 through, they start the routine over 22 again. You do two bags each bleed. You 23 bleed two bags. Like if you're a 24 hundred and fifty-one, it's called a 25 little bag. If you're a hundred and 26 fifty and over, it was the bigger bag. 27 But you did two of them bags. Each 61

18 1 bleed you did two bags. 2 Q. So if you were over a 3 hundred and fifty pounds, you bled into 4 two big bags each bleed? 5 A. (Witness nods head 6 affirmatively.) Two bags, yes, sir. 7 Q. How much did you weigh? 8 A. Oh, I probably weighed about 9 a hundred and forty then. 10 Q. Okay. You said that they something about filling out cards or 12 questionnaires. Would you explain that, 13 please, when you went in. Did they 14 check things off, I believe is what you 15 said. Did they ask you questions about 16 I.V. drug usage? 17 A. (Witness shakes head 18 negatively.) No, they didn't ask you 19 that. The doctor, the only thing the 20 doctor -- You're talking about when you 21 got your -- the doctor seen you? 22 Q. Uh-huh (indicating 23 affirmatively). 24 A. No, the only thing he asked 25 you was did you have hepatitis, that's 26 the only thing he asked you, and did you 27 have tattoos within six months. He 62

19 1 didn't ask you if you was HIV or if you 2 were an I.V. user. He didn't ask none 3 of that. 4 Q. If he asked you if you were 5 an I.V. drug user, could you just lie 6 and say "No" and still bleed? 7 A. (Witness nods head 8 affirmatively.) Sure. Yeah. 9 (Without the videotape being 10 suspended, the following dialogue 11 occurred.) 12 MR. BECK: 13 Objection. 14 THE COURT: 15 Overruled. 16 (Resumption of the playing 17 of the videotape.) 18 THE WITNESS: 19 Yes, you could. He didn't 20 check. 21 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 22 Q. I see that you have tattoos. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And would you describe them 25 for the record, please, or show them for 26 the camera? 27 A. I got a peacock and a little 63

20 1 man's face here (indicating). Then I 2 got a skull. I got some more up on -- 3 at the top here, some here, some over 4 here (indicating). 5 Q. Where did you get those 6 tattoos? 7 A. This is coverups. I had 8 tattoos under these here (indicating 9 left arm). And they were penitentiary 10 tattoos, they're called penitentiary 11 tattoos. But they was real ugly 12 tattoos. And when I got out on the 13 street, I went to a tattoo parlor and 14 had them covered up. But if you look, 15 you can see tattoos underneath these, 16 these tattoos (indicating). 17 Q. What are penitentiary 18 tattoos? 19 A. Well, it's -- you make a 20 tattoo gun out of a motor out of a tape 21 player and an ink pen, an ink pen like 22 this (indicating), and a guitar string. 23 And you can get -- you can get the ink, 24 the tattoo ink. And you get somebody 25 that knows how to put tattoos on and 26 they'll tattoo it. 27 Q. And did you receive 64

21 1 penitentiary tattoos in Angola during 2 this first stint -- 3 A. (Witness nods head 4 affirmatively.) Oh, yeah. 5 Q. -- from '77 through '82? 6 A. (Witness nods head 7 affirmatively.) Yeah. 8 Q. And did you give during this 9 time period when you were receiving 10 tattoos? 11 A. (Witness nods head 12 affirmatively.) Oh, yeah. When I went 13 and took my physical, I had got a spider 14 over here underneath this one here. You 15 can see this one better (indicating 16 right arm). But I had a spider under 17 here. I mean, he didn't never see it 18 because he never made me take my shirt 19 off. 20 Q. And they asked you questions 21 about I.V. drug usage at your initial 22 physical; is that correct? 23 A. No, he never asked me that. 24 Q. Okay. What did he do? 25 A. The only thing he Q. Did the subject come up? 27 A. No. He just said, "Do you 65

22 1 have hepatitis?" And "Do you have 2 hepatitis and have you had a tattoo in 3 six months?" 4 Q. Were you using drugs in ? 6 A. (Witness nods head 7 affirmatively.) Sure. 8 Q. What kind of drugs? 9 A. Heroin, cocaine, marijuana. 10 Q. Were you using I.V. drugs, 11 heroin and cocaine? 12 A. No, I snorted. I snorted then. 13 Q. Okay. Did you have, to your 14 knowledge, hepatitis of any kind in 1977? 15 A. (Witness shakes head 16 negatively.) No, not to my knowledge I 17 didn't. 18 Q. Did you get it later? 19 A. (Witness nods head 20 affirmatively.) Yes, sir. 21 Q. What kind of hepatitis do 22 you have now? 23 MR. BERKMAN: 24 Objection. 25 A. B and C. 26 MR. BERKMAN: 27 Objection. Form of the 66

23 1 Q. Assuming that that statement 2 was made, would you describe the relation- 3 ship, the way in which homosexuals were 4 treated during this time period at 5 Angola -- 6 MR. CHASSAIGNAC: 7 Same objection. 8 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 9 Q. -- within the prison system? 10 MR. CHASSAIGNAC: 11 Same objection. 12 MS. KATZ: 13 Lacks foundation and assumes 14 facts not in evidence. 15 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 16 Q. Well, let's make it a little 17 more specific, Mr. Vincent. 18 A. Okay. 19 Q. Were there, to your 20 understanding and knowledge, homosexuals 21 in Angola in this time period through 1982? 23 A. (Witness nods head 24 affirmatively.) Yes. 25 Q. And were there a number of 26 homosexuals or just a few? 27 A. (Witness nods head 70

24 1 affirmatively.) There was a number of 2 homosexuals then. 3 Q. And how were they treated 4 within the prison system or society? 5 Were they segregated? 6 A. Well, no. I mean, you can't 7 -- you can't number out all the 8 homosexuals because Security won't have 9 no room to put them all. I mean, you 10 know, it would be like they'd have to 11 take, say, Camp D and Camp C and make 12 that just nothing but homosexual camps. 13 And they can't do that. There's just no 14 way. 15 Q. All right. Were homo- 16 sexuals, to your knowledge, allowed to 17 bleed or participate in the plasma 18 program at Angola from '77 through '81 19 or '82? 20 MR. BERKMAN: 21 Objection. 22 A. Yes. 23 MS. KATZ: 24 Objection. Lacks foundation. 25 (Without the videotape being 26 suspended, the following dialogue 27 occurred.) 71

25 1 THE COURT: 2 Overruled. 3 (Resumption of the playing 4 of the videotape.) 5 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 6 Q. How do you know that? 7 A. Well, after you went through 8 your little routine, you know, and 9 you're waiting for them to call your 10 name, I mean, it wasn't nothing to see a 11 homosexual in the bathroom having sex 12 before they go on the table to bleed. 13 Q. In the plasma center? 14 A. In the bathroom, yes. 15 Q. Have you seen this yourself? 16 A. (Witness nods head 17 affirmatively.) Yeah, I seen that. 18 Q. On how many occasions? 19 A. Oh, I don't -- A number of 20 occasions. I mean, it was nothing to 21 see it. You know, they're having oral 22 sex and anus sex, and five minutes later 23 they're on the table giving blood. 24 Q. Was this something you 25 observed throughout this first hitch at 26 Angola from '77 through '81 or ' A. (Witness nods head 72

26 1 affirmatively.) Yes. 2 Q. -- whenever you were there? 3 A. (Witness nods head 4 affirmatively.) Yes. 5 Q. On a regular basis? 6 A. (Witness nods head 7 affirmatively.) Yes. 8 Q. You said before, if you knew 9 somebody at the staff or on the line, 10 you could bleed any time you wanted. 11 Would you describe what you meant by 12 that statement? 13 A. Okay. Well, the staff, I 14 would say the staff to me would be like 15 Security. Security don't -- They was 16 only there for like violent breakouts, 17 you know, fights and stuff like that. 18 Now, they didn't have nothing to do with 19 that. That was only their job there. 20 I would say the plasma 21 workers, that's how I would, you know, 22 use the word. If you knew someone 23 there, it didn't matter. Or say if 24 Security caught a homosexual or -- Well, 25 it's different between a homosexual and 26 a penitentiary turnout. 27 If the Security caught a 73

27 1 penitentiary turnout having sex, they 2 removed them off of the plasma. They 3 took them off, okay? But, you know, as 4 far as their knowledge, they're off of 5 the plasma. But if you have -- Say 6 their old man is good friends with the 7 guys working the plasma, then he'd go 8 over there and say, "Hey, man, why you 9 took my old lady off the plasma?" "Oh, 10 man, I didn't know that was your old 11 lady. Hold up, man, I'm going to put 12 her back on." She's right back on. 13 But as far as Security, to 14 their knowledge, they're off. But my 15 podner got her back on, you know. You 16 understand what I'm saying? 17 Q. Now, you need to define some 18 terms for us, Mr. Vincent. 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. We may not be quite as 21 streetwise as you are. 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. When you say "old lady," 24 what are you referring to? 25 A. A penitentiary, you know, 26 whore, okay? 27 Q. And we're talking about -- 74

28 1 A. That's a turnout. 2 Q. -- male or female? 3 A. It's a male. It's a male 4 that they use like a woman, you know. 5 Q. Okay. And if someone like 6 this gets caught having sex in the line 7 by Security, they're pulled but then 8 they manage to get back in the program; 9 is that what you're saying? 10 A. (Witness nods head 11 affirmatively.) Yes. 12 Q. How do they do that again? 13 A. They, you know, they'll go 14 to the plasma and they'll see, you know, 15 say, their friend or their homeboy works 16 there and say, "Hey, man, you know, you 17 took my whore off." You know, excuse my 18 language. "But you took my whore off, 19 you know." "Oh, well, I'm going to put 20 her back on." Then they put the 21 homosexual or whore back on. 22 Q. Well, are there homosexuals 23 working in the plasma center? 24 A. There's whores worked in 25 there. 26 Q. Okay. 27 A. There's a difference. 75

29 1 Q. All right. Explain that 2 difference then. And then I'll ask you 3 about that. 4 A. Well, okay. A homosexual is 5 born like that. They come into the 6 system like that, okay? They live that 7 life all their life. That's a homo- 8 sexual. And a whore or a penitentiary 9 turnout is someone that comes to the 10 prison and they're weak and they can't 11 stand up for theirself, so they call 12 theirself -- they get them an old man, 13 someone that's strong, that can survive 14 for them and keep people from using them 15 sexually whenever they want; but, at the 16 same token, he uses them like he wants 17 whenever, you know, he wants to. 18 Q. Okay. And you're talking 19 about the whores in the plasma center 20 rather than just homosexuals? 21 A. (Witness nods head 22 affirmatively.) Yes. 23 Q. Well, describe what 24 relationship, if any, the whores had in 25 the plasma center, the male whores had 26 in the plasma center. Did they work 27 there? 76

30 1 A. (Witness nods head 2 affirmatively.) Yes, they had some 3 worked there. 4 Q. And what would they do 5 there? 6 A. You know, they would handle 7 the bags or they would clean your arm. 8 You know, it might be their job to stick 9 your finger or it might have been their 10 job, assigned job, to take your blood 11 pressure or pull your folder. 12 You know, it all depend it all depend where they was assigned to 14 at the plasma, at the plasma center, you 15 know. 16 Q. Was there any A. Excuse me. 18 Q. -- interreaction or 19 interaction between the homosexuals who 20 were donating or the whores who were 21 donating and the whores who worked in 22 the center? 23 A. I don't understand. 24 Q. What is it like when these 25 people get together in the plasma 26 center? I mean, you talked earlier 27 about -- 77

31 1 A. Okay. It's kind of like, 2 you know -- And, I mean, don't get me 3 wrong. You know, Security did their 4 job. I mean, they can only do so much. 5 You only have so much Security to put in 6 such places, you know what I mean? 7 But, I mean, you know, if 8 you're standing there and you see one 9 homosexual in there doing -- having anal 10 sex and then they get through and then 11 another one goes in there and they might 12 be having oral sex or -- You know what 13 I'm talking about? I mean, you kind of 14 feel like I was young. I was young. 16 But, you know, I was strong enough to be 17 able to handle myself, you know, so I 18 didn't have to go through that. But if 19 you see it, it's kind of like, yeah, a 20 whorehouse or something, you know. 21 Q. Did the -- Any time you were 22 there during this time period of your 23 first hitch here, late seventies, early 24 eighties, did the people running the 25 plasma center make any effort, to your 26 knowledge, to exclude homosexuals from 27 donating plasma? 78

32 1 A. (Witness shakes head 2 negatively.) Not to my knowledge, no. 3 Q. Did the plasma center and 4 these bathrooms that you talked about 5 provide a place and an opportunity for 6 these people to have sex outside of the 7 rest of the prison system? 8 A. Well, I mean, it's -- I'm 9 not going to say -- I'm not going to say 10 "Yes," okay? But it would be like if Q. I don't mean intentionally. 12 A. Excuse me. 13 Well, it would be like if a 14 man at the main prison had a whore and 15 she was back there at, say, Camp D or 16 Camp C, well, they could meet up. They 17 could get on the call-out around the 18 same time and meet up at the plasma, you 19 know, that-away. 20 Q. And they would have sex A. (Witness nods head 22 affirmatively.) Yeah. 23 Q. -- while they were in line? 24 A. Yeah. You could get to 25 them, yeah. 26 Q. And you saw this on a number 27 of occasions? 79

33 1 I.V. drug use. 2 MS. KATZ: 3 And, also, I think to the 4 line of questioning about homosexuals. 5 MR. BERKMAN: 6 Right. 7 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 8 Q. I'm asking you only things, 9 Mr. Vincent, that you have personal 10 knowledge of. 11 A. (Witness nods head 12 affirmatively.) 13 Q. I'm not asking you to talk 14 about what other people said. 15 A. (Witness nods head 16 affirmatively.) 17 Q. Did you have personal 18 knowledge of inmates having sex in the 19 lines A. (Witness nods head 21 affirmatively.) Yes. 22 Q. -- at the plasma center? 23 A. (Witness nods head 24 affirmatively.) Yes. 25 Q. And did you have personal 26 knowledge of people who were I.V. drug 27 users who were allowed to sell their 82

34 1 plasma -- 2 A. (Witness nods head 3 affirmatively.) Yes. 4 Q. -- during this time period? 5 MR. BERKMAN: 6 Objection. 7 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 8 Q. And did you have personal 9 knowledge of people who had hepatitis 10 who were allowed to sell their blood 11 during this time period? 12 A. (Witness nods head 13 affirmatively.) Yes. 14 MR. BERKMAN: 15 Objection. 16 MR. CHASSAIGNAC: 17 Same objection. 18 (Without the videotape being 19 suspended, the following dialogue 20 occurred.) 21 THE COURT: 22 Overruled. 23 (Resumption of the playing 24 of the videotape.) 25 EXAMINATION BY MR. MULL: 26 Q. Did the -- And my last 27 question, I believe, before I started 83

35 1 CIVIL DISTRICT COURT PARISH OF ORLEANS 2 STATE OF LOUISIANA 3 4 JURY TRIAL 5 JOHN AND JANE DOE * NO * 6 VERSUS * DIVISION "L" * 7 ALPHA THERAPEUTICS, ARMOUR * SECTION 15 PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY, * 8 CUTTER BIOLOGICAL, a * division of MILES, INC., * 9 HYLAND THERAPEUTICS, a * division of BAXTER * 10 HEALTHCARE CORPORATION, * THE ADMINISTRATORS OF THE * 11 TULANE EDUCATIONAL FUND, * TULANE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, * 12 and DR. W. ABE ANDES * * 13 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Testimony and notes of 16 evidence taken in the above-entitled cause before the HONORABLE MAX N. TOBIAS, JR., 17 commencing at 1:20 p.m., on Thursday, the 10th day of December, APPEARANCES: 20 MULL AND MULL 21 Attorneys at Law (By: Thomas W. Mull, Esquire 22 Frances M. Phares, Esquire) 729 East Boston Street 23 Post Office Box 1474 Covington, Louisiana AND - BARHAM AND ARCENEAUX, A.P.L.C. 25 Attorneys at Law (By: Robert E. Arceneaux, Esquire) 26 Suite 2700, Poydras Center 650 Poydras Street 27 New Orleans, Louisiana AND- 138

36 1 I N D E X 2 WITNESS: PAGE 3 RICHARD HAROLD VINCENT (by videotaped deposition) 5 WITNESS: 6 CHERYL DIXON Spruce Drive Apartment Lafayette, Louisiana EXAMINATION BY MS. PHARES EXAMINATION BY MR. ALBERT WITNESS: 12 OSCAR D. RATNOFF, M.D (by videotaped deposition) EXHIBITS: Plaintiffs' Exhibit

37 1 (Bench Conference.) 2 THE COURT: 3 Page 141, Line 13. Thank 4 you. 5 We're getting there, folks. 6 Almost finished. Not more than two or 7 three, four hours more. 8 By the way, if any of you 9 can read lips, don't. 10 (Resumption of playing of 11 videotape.) 12 EXAMINATION BY MR. ACCARDO: 13 Q. How is it that you knew what 14 to write about when you wrote your 15 letter? How is it that you knew what you 16 were writing about when you wrote your 17 letter? 18 A. Well, what do you mean? I 19 mean, let me say this, okay? We didn't 20 stand there and have no hour and a half 21 conversation about, "well, you need to do 22 this and you need to --" no, okay? It was 23 only about "these people is handling a 24 suit on the plasma because they told us 25 that --" they told us that the plasma was 26 being used for cosmetics for women, for 27 makeup, this and that. It never was that 186

38 1 they're doing -- making this kind of pill 2 or that, whatever, okay? It never was 3 told to us. It was about makeup, eye 4 shadow, mascara and stuff for ladies. 5 Q. Who told you that? 6 A. The people running the 7 plasma. 8 Q. The inmates running the 9 plasma? 10 A. The man over the plasma. 11 Q. And who is that? 12 A. I just told this man here I 13 didn't know. I don't know these people's 14 names. I only know Ray Kirkendoll because 15 I worked there. 16 Q. Now, this is at DeQuincy A. I don't know. 18 Q. -- the man in charge of 19 DeQuincy told you that he was making 20 makeup? 21 A. And the people here in '78, 22 '79. This was what everyone, everyone 23 that bled, that bled the plasma was under 24 the understanding that this stuff was made 25 for them. 26 Q. So that was your 27 understanding? 187

39 1 A. That was everyone's. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. Not mine. Everyone's. 4 Q. Did somebody back in tell you that or '78 tell you that? 6 A. (Nods head affirmatively.) 7 Yes. I told you the man over the plasma, 8 the man -- 9 Q. Okay. That's a man, all 10 right? 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. The man, a man, in A. Yeah. 14 Q. -- '78? 15 A. Yeah. 16 Q. Is that the same man that 17 was at DeQuincy? 18 A. (Witness shakes head 19 negatively.) No. No. 20 Q. So, that's some other man? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. So, you've had two people 23 tell you that about makeup? 24 A. (Nods head affirmatively.) 25 Yes. Yes. Because I did ask about it. I 26 did ask about it again in DeQuincy. And 27 that was his exact words, "it's made for 188